The follow-up board meeting to review the approval of the $20 million in subsidies needed for the Harlem Hyatt development on 125th street convened this morning at the EDC offices downtown. We had our intrepid insider wake up early to attend the 9:00 AM event. After going through a list of other local economic developments, the funding of the Harlem Hyatt was finally on the table. So what was the verdict? The final decision by the committee, after a recap of the public approval session, turned out to be a unanimous YES. This is still just a third step preliminary approval of this project but everything is falling into place thus far. Read all things Harlem Hyatt in our past post: LINK. Photo by Ulysses
Tuesday, June 8, 2010
☞ REVIVE: Will Harlem Hyatt Receive Funding?
The follow-up board meeting to review the approval of the $20 million in subsidies needed for the Harlem Hyatt development on 125th street convened this morning at the EDC offices downtown. We had our intrepid insider wake up early to attend the 9:00 AM event. After going through a list of other local economic developments, the funding of the Harlem Hyatt was finally on the table. So what was the verdict? The final decision by the committee, after a recap of the public approval session, turned out to be a unanimous YES. This is still just a third step preliminary approval of this project but everything is falling into place thus far. Read all things Harlem Hyatt in our past post: LINK. Photo by Ulysses
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Another step closer to implementation, this is looking well planned as all the pieces are falling into place.
ReplyDeleteYes, great news. Anybody know what is next and when they can start construction? Hopefully keep the momentum going!
ReplyDeleteThey mentioned final authorization in August. Construction has to start by the end of 2010.
ReplyDeleteNot sure how tall this will be but it will offer some great photo opportunities across Harlem’s roof tops and the hotel guests will get some amazing views.
ReplyDeleteExcellent news!!! Wishing Emmitt and his team good luck in getting the Hyatt done!
ReplyDeleteOne small step for Harlem, One giant step for Harlemkind!!!!
ReplyDeleteWell, OK but why do we need a second YMCA in Harlem? And what about the Whole Foods that was supposed to go on the empty lot at 135th & Lenox? Does this Whole Foods replace that one?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, if you were Whole Foods, which location would you pick?
ReplyDeleteRooting for Emmitt Smith on this project has not been an easy thing considering I am a die hard NY football Giants fan. As a Harlem homeowner, I must, without any reservation, support this Hyatt Hotel proposal. This will keep the progress in Harlem going. It will create jobs, it will bring tourism to Harlem, and will have a positive impact on the local businesses in Harlem. It will also be a positive sign for other future developments in Harlem showing that things can be done if done properly with the communities backing (as we have in this case).
ReplyDeleteIf they have problems meeting the 2010 deadline , I will be out there with a shovel preping for the foundation.
Agree w/ anon @ 11:28. The 125th street location is a no-brainer. It's also right on the 2/3 subway stop and a couple of avenues East of the A/B/C/D stops and West of the 4/5/6. It could draw people from everything from South Harlem to East Harlem to Striver's Row...
ReplyDeleteI still can't tell if Whole Foods has actually committed to taking a space in this project, though. Anybody know?
We are trying our best to get a Trader Joe's into The Langston retail space. Please hep by suggesting this site on traderjoes.com
ReplyDeletehttp://www.traderjoes.com/about/location-requests-form.asp
Anyway...GreenGirl, I was wondering the same. Not even mentioned in the plans. For me, getting this built is the main thing, a Whole Foods would be a bonus.
ReplyDeleteI would have never thought I would be cheering for a Hyatt...but here I am. Let's get the shovels out Anon 11:32.
ReplyDeleteA second Y, with updated facilities and good leadership, would be great for Harlem. Imagine our own version of the 92St Y...with cultural programs and fantastic after school activities for our kiddos...yeah! And after the swim lessons off to Whole Foods for some bite-size brownies...heaven ;)
Go Hyatt!
Would a Whole Foods adversely effect Wild Olive Market? That would be unfortunate. I understand that it's free market capitalism, however, they (Wild Olive Market )invested so much into that space.
ReplyDeleteWild Olive is better value than WF so they have an edge
ReplyDeleteLast night I was at the 32nd NYU Hotel Conference at the Marriott Marquis in Times Square. All the major players in this business space were there, Hyatt executives said they have never had talks with anyone about this, had no idea what I was talking about, and they were excited about the 2 new Hyatt Hotels that were last night announced to be built in Panama.
ReplyDeleteSome NYC Developers heard of this in the news, not a single one thought it had a chance of ever happening. You can get the low down on the conference last night here.
http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/154000320/4046934.search?query=hotel%20market%20new%20york%20city
I could not find a single person familiar with this that thought it had a chance of actually happening. I also wondered why Smith/Cypress executives were not there last night trying to talk up this, it would have been a good chance for Emmitt Smith to actually meet the HQ corporate executives of Hyatt. The conference is still taking place, there is still time for a person from Hyatt to speak on this to media, however they know nothing of it from what I gathered.
a whole foods is years away in that space. think of how long it took that one on the upper west to open...wild olive would have tons of time to build a solid and loyal customer base before whole foods moved in.
ReplyDeleteanon @12:45, so all of the proposals, submitted applications and meetings (including the one that took place today) must just be a figment of our imagination. Thanks for the random link to Hotel Lawyer lol.
ReplyDeleteChris, I thought the exact same thing when a pulled up the lawyer site. People just want to be downers and will do anything to seem credible. Despicable.
ReplyDeleteThe developers have definitely had talks with Hyatt. They wouldn't be using their name if they hadn't. Perhaps very preliminary; perhaps off-the-record type stuff, but they have definitely spoken.
ReplyDeleteMr. Smith and his team have been at the NYU conference before, meeting with many of the corporate players of many companies, and I am sure they were there this year. The fact that the hearing on the financing coincided with the NYU conference this week was not coincidence.
Anon 12:58, it’s not as despicable as you may think. I share the optimism for the purported development in Harlem just like anyone else. However I've been disappointed on several occasions in the past. I hope this project comes to fruition – let’s wait and see.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of very NAIVE people here, I suspect many of the new arrivals to Harlem.
ReplyDeleteA. I can recall, March 5, 2003 -Harlem may soon get its first, full-service hotel. The land, a vacant parcel at the southwest corner of Park Avenue and East 125th Street opposite the Metro North station, is currently owned by the abutting New York College of Podiatric Medicine.
The school is negotiating a 48-year lease with a renewal option with developer Michael Caridi, chairman of the Brooklyn-based construction company, SRC Industries. At this point, the Marriott and Westin hotel chains have expressed interested in the site. "We're proposing 183 to 204 rooms in a full-service hotel," said Caridi, who hopes to break ground on the 26-to-30-story project in September. "It's a godsend for Harlem. Politically, everyone seems to be on board with it."
B. Harlem Park. 1. AL GORE's investment firm was looking for space in Harlem Park. 2. Major League Baseball was going to place their cable TV operations out of Harlem Park. Vornado, the biggest and most experienced developer was behind it, of course it would be built!
C. And for the record, in 2000 Governor George E. Pataki announced that State property located at 125th Street and Lenox Avenue will be developed into "Harlem Center," an $85 million retail office and hotel complex that is expected to create 825 permanent full-time jobs in the community. Real world? No Hotel, no 825 jobs, not by a long shot.
I could go on and on and list all sorts of Harlem developments, complete with ground breaking photos, etc.
This is why some of us that have been in Harlem for sometime, can't get excited over this, as it's nothing. It's nothing if and when they break ground. We've been there, seen that, you name it. I suggest not holding your breath on this stuff, you just might turn blue. Or maybe you do want to be a real Harlemite. You see real Harlemites are used to having smoke blown up our asses, only to later be blown off, and not in a happy ending kind of way. You'll see.
Anon @ 8:35, I can definitely empathise with the sentiment expressed by those who have been here for a long time and seen so-called sure bets dwindle away to nothing. Personally, without being an expert on the subject, I feel that Harlem has been taken advantage of in this regard in the past, financially and socially with broken promises.
ReplyDeleteI think people are excited, because when one of these projects does come to fruition it will be a symbolic victory as much as anything else and will act as a springboard for further development down the road.
Who currently owns the empty lot on the corner of 125th St & Lenox? Is it as anon 8:35pm said, State owned?
ReplyDeleteSadly this seems another pipe dream to me. It has everything in it to appeal to everyone. A YMCA for the community types, a Whole foods for the new Harlemites and the Hyatt for That one I don't really get. I live in Harlem and the people I know and see on a daily basis cant afford to shop at Whole Foods. If you spend time at Fairway you will see that most of those people don't live here. They come for the parking and then go home. People see any redevelopment as progress to me it seems as if we are becoming the rest of Manhattans parking lot. They open restaurant where meals start at $20 and I wonder who is this for because I don't know these people. There are pictures of a line rapped around a door at Old Navy to me that was development for us. Sure I wish it was local and not some multi national chain selling clothes from China but at least they are selling to Harlem. People on The east side can go to there own Old navy they don't need ours. That one was for us. I would be just as happy to see a Fine Fair in the big open lot or even dare I say it a K Mart. They keep building for the people who will come, but I live here now.
ReplyDeleteAnon 12:51
ReplyDeleteAmen.
Isn't 90% of what's on 125th Street for the 40% who are poor in Harlem?
ReplyDeleteThe 10% new development will bring in tax dollars and jobs. If you think all that public housing is sustainable, keep on holding your breath. Why do you think the government keeps trying to sell off old Mitchell Lama buildings? The only way any of the affordable stuff will stick around is if Harlem starts to generate money instead of being a sink hole of debt for the city.
anon @12.51, and keep on thinking with that attitude and nothing will ever change. I find it bizarre that people constantly think of Harlem as this place that is unable to sustain change of any kind. It will take time for change to occur, but the fact is Harlem has been lagging behind other neighborhoods in the city for far too long and projects like Best Yet Market, Hyatt and Whole Foods will slowly start to initiate change. There are a lot of people in Harlem who are happy to accept their lot, because, let's be honest, some have a pretty good gig going on and for them any hint of change or progression generates fear.
ReplyDelete40% who are poor in Harlem? Are you kidding? In denial? Let's pick a zip code, like 10027. Averages for the 2004 tax year for zip code 10027, filed in 2005: Average Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) in 2004: $36,026 (Individual Income Tax Returns). Is that not poor in NYC?
ReplyDeleteThese numbers have likely only gone down in the last 5 years and that's "POOR", the average income earner in 10027 is "Poor" on Manhattan standards. That's today, and those are people with jobs. Yes, if you make less than $40K, you're poor in Manhattan.
It's not 40% of Harlem that's "poor". It's about 85%-95%, on a NYC standard. It's not pretty or sexy, but the fact is Harlem has entrenched poverty that cannot be uprooted (public housing) and is going no where.
Ever see the prices at N Boutique? Katrina Flowers? Setti Penni? Can you imagine what the prices will be like at the Red Rooster? New retail in Harlem is there for maybe 5% of the population at the very most, and that is a stretch!
To say nothing will ever change on 125th is Naive. We have seen a lot of stalled developments on 125th over the years, and all the while Harlem has changed dramatically. For a housing project resident or section 8 renters, not much has changed, but for those with disposable income there is a pent up demand. These folks want choices and convenience and more of these folks are arriving and changing the demographics of Harlem. Now there are many eclectic dining options where only a few years back it was only soul food and these new places are doing great business and have proved that Harlem can support more than just 99 cent stores. If you doubt this, just walk past Chez Lucienne and see the place is doing very well. This development looks well planned and is being executed and according to people in the know will likely go through, and if it does not, something else will occupy this huge well located lot. To say nothing will ever change on 125th is Naive.
ReplyDeleteA point of reference - there is a Whole Foods on Bowery & Houston. The zip code there is 10002. According the the 2000 census, the median household for this area was $27k/year. For 10027, it was $23/k/year.
ReplyDeleteNow, 10027 actually has a HIGHER income than 10002.
http://www.melissadata.com/lookups/TaxZip.asp?Zip=10027
http://www.melissadata.com/lookups/TaxZip.asp?Zip=10002
So clearly it's possible for a Whole Foods to work in a poorer area.
Besides, you can make dinner for 4 for $25 ... what it costs to buy dinner for 4 people at McDonalds. It's not easy, but it certainly can be done. Or give me $50 and I can make a soup, bread, and fruit salad that will last 4 people for 2 nights.
I don't think that having some nice stores in Harlem means it needs to lose its identity or character. There is a middle ground here. I find it equally insulting that only "rich" people should eat healthy food ...
To answer aFineLyne, this lot is government owned property that was worth $80 million 5 years ago. As part of this deal, the developers will receive the land for $10 million.
ReplyDeletethank you green girl. finally someone actually brings FACTS to the table.
ReplyDeleteIs there any current (2009) data that speaks to the financial health of Harlem residents?
ReplyDeleteKeeping an area depressed doesn't translate into the area maintaining its character....it only ensures a state of perpetual stagnation. Things will continue to change in Harlem for the better...but for some this change will bring on emotions of fear, fear of the unkown. Unfortunately, the reality is that we live in NYC and Manhattan of all places, an ever changing microcosm. This wave of change that Harlem is experiencing should serve as a sign of encouragement to those in fear, encouragement to better their lives in order to benefit from the improvements that will most certainly continue into the foreseable future.
By the way is Bill Perkins (NY State Senator) supporting this project, because it's my understanding that he's actually against the use of eminent domain pertaining to Columbia University's expansion plans.
Regarding the current ownership of this property, another post indicated that the lot was sold in 2006 for $20,000,000 to an entity called 125th & Lenox LLC.
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:23am, are you sure of your information, since you indicated these facts true 5 years ago - and 2006 is 4 years ago...
Green Girl: Just a quick note -- those figures appear to reflect the arithmetic mean of AGI, not median AGI.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, it's important to note that these figures do not reflect "true" personal or household income -- they are for IRS Adjusted Gross Income. The AGI figures will not reflect certain types of income excluded from tax (e.g., Social Security and other government benefits), and are adjusted down by certain "above the line" deductions.
A measure of "true" income would be higher -- both for the population we're trying to measure and for any individual filer within it. And this doesn't even address the issue of unreported income.
For a more detailed breakout of the tax return figures for 2007 (the most recent year available):
http://www.incometaxlist.com/new-york-income-new-york-ny-10027.htm
According to the tiers provided by the IRS, 21.3% of filers in 10027 had AGI in excess of $50,000 in 2007, and 7% in excess of $100,000. These figures are not actually too far off from the state as a whole.
It's also worth noting that only 26% of the returns filed in 2007 qualified for EITC, which is heavily promoted.
Pete - You're missing the forest for the trees here. The point isn't whether it's a mean or a median or adjusted or true income; the point is to COMPARE different geographies.
ReplyDeleteIf you do the same thing you did for 10002, about 17% of people there were over $50k and 5.5% over 10027. So on a comparative basis, the numbers show the same thing.
I still have no idea whether this will happen. But I think a whole foods could work. This isn't a caviar bar or a luxury car dealership. Go check out the Whole Foods in Union Square or on the Bowery. It's pretty diverse socioeconomically.
I think a Trader Joes would be a better fit as TJ is better value and I am a big fan of TJ, long lines and all. However, every neighborhood in Manhattan is praying for a TJ while WF is actually building stores in many neighborhoods, so I think there is more chance of a WF at this point. However, if Emit Smith asked me to choose, I would opt for a Barnes and Nobel, a TJ and a Cold Stone.
ReplyDelete11:23 -- It's an interesting notion that the lot was "worth" $80 million 5 years ago, or at any other arbitrary point in time when it was not actually transacted.
ReplyDeleteAs has been amply demonstrated time and again, property is only "worth" what people will pay for it. If a vacant lot is being held by the city for many years, its value is entirely notional and fully dependent on what future economic use can be derived from it. The practical difficulties of effectuating such use, especially in the current economic and capital markets environment, should be obvious to all here.
City government, private developers, and residents all stand to benefit from turning that future economic use into a reality. That a government-owned, vacant lot should change hands as part of such a project, and that the pricing should incorporate some of the expected social benefit (and perhaps also the present value of increased future tax receipts), should come as no surprise.
To put it another way, the city is not a private entity of the sort that might have a purely speculative interest in holding a portfolio of boarded-up buildings and empty lots in order to cash in on a future upturn in the real estate market. For a private entity, that could make economic sense, even if doing so contributes to blight in the neighborhood. A public entity cannot view such factors as crime and lower levels of taxable economic activity (and jobs for political constituents) simply as externalities to be disregarded.
I wouldn't expect or want my representatives to hold on to a giant empty lot, just so they could theoretically exact a greater transaction price at some point in the future. In the mean time, we are all paying the price -- both directly and indirectly.
To be perfectly clear, the only "expenditure" that is being made by the public sector here, apart from this conditional transfer of land, is the use of *federal* tax exempt bonds. And just to be sure everyone understands what that means, no tax dollars are being forked over. The actual funding comes from private investors who purchase the bonds, and the tax exemption is simply what makes that risk and reward equation sufficiently attractive for investors to back a project of this sort.
The tax exemption is best understood as an opportunity cost, and an extremely limited one at that. The federal government is forgoing taxation of economic activity that probably would not have happened but for the exemption. The city/state has a limited amount of tax-exempt funding to allocate among potential projects, so they have to pick and choose. But that is really about it.
Green Girl: I may be caught up in some of the trees (and the leaves), but I am actually agreeing with you on the forest.
ReplyDeleteMy point (and I think yours) was that, like many parts of the city, 10027/10026 is a socioeconomically diverse area. And that trend is only increasing.
I agree with you Pete - it's a socio econmically diverse area, like many parts of Manhattan.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, another way to look at this is that you need a popualtion of 15-20k to support a full service supermarket.
10027 had 27,000 tax returns filed, let's assume two per household (some are single, but others have kids). That's 50,000 people there. Let's assume that only 20% of the people can afford to shop there (those making more than $50k/year) ... that's still 12,000 people, and that's only one zip code and this would draw from 3-4 zip codes.
Pete, it's a myth to characterize 10027/26 as socioeconomically diverse. I think you and many have a vested interest to think this, but it's not true. What's a look at the public schools tell you? Census 2000 had the Black population to be twice that of the White.
ReplyDeleteAnother myth is that Whites come to Harlem and stay. More than half I know that rent, soon (after 1 - 2 years) return to lower Manhattan or Bklyn or somewhere with amenities. Just could not hack it.
10027 like much of Harlem is an expanding chasm of the haves and the have-nots. The middle class is being priced out of Harlem, especially if they have kids.
When I go to some of the new restaurants, I don't see diversity. I see me and my date (Black) and usually a bunch of White people. I see little diversity, I see new businesses designed to cater to those earning over $75K or so and have no kids (mostly White people). People who can justify spending $50 on dinner for two for example.
anon@ 1:40pm, I guess we must be the exception to the rule, white, with kid and buying in Harlem. I frequent many restaurants in Harlem and I see diversity. Go into Mojo on a Friday night and you will see what I mean. I think we are all in agreement, however, hat it would be great to see some more affordable options.
ReplyDeleteI spend a lot of time in Chinatown, an area with it's own fare share of public housing coupled with a lot of new construction, that somehow manages to thrive and evolve without as much bashing that Harlem takes. For years Harlem has been tormented with a suffocating negative image, but slowly that is changing. There is a lot to celebrate about the place, but more often than not the positive things are buried beneath headlines of drugs and gang violence.
Do we know the percentage of minority residents who are new to Harlem? And I would assume that most of us newcomers, like our white counterparts, make a descent enough living to be able to afford the new condos and townhouses.
ReplyDeleteBring on the hotels, retail, restaurants, entertainment, etc. because my money will stay in Harlem!
Over the weekend I met up with family/friends from out of state. When I mentioned my recent move to Harlem their immediate reaction was based on Harlem's past not its present nor future. As I proudly described my neighborhood their jaws dropped and their minds opened...because if I, a loved family member and friend, go out on a limb and say that Harlem has changed then in their minds it must have improved significantly. We must defend our community!
ReplyDeleteWell, first of all, nytimes had an article that said Harlem is no longer majority black. So whites are in fact staying.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/nyregion/06harlem.html
But let's not make this about race.
I agree with Chris - when I go to the new restaurants and stores I see a lot of affluent, black people.
A lot of upwardly mobile people are moving to Harlem - both white and black.
....and hispanic. and asian....and....dont want to ruin anyone's party but there are other races besides black and white.
ReplyDeleteActually, there's only one other race - Asian. But there are numerous ethnicities ;-)
ReplyDeleteI have mixed feelings about this hotel thing. Although I am all for progress. I wonder how many small business owners will be put out of business in the area after this hotel is built. How many jobs and or careers will be put aside for unemployed Harlem Residences and how much local business will the hotel use if any? People are happy about these projects coming into Harlem, but are they thinking about the long term affects it will cause. More traffic, crowded trains, buses etc.
ReplyDeleteI read that the mall on the East Side of Harlem is already in trouble. Costco is not getting the traffic it thought it would and has already laid people off before Target has even open? How many Harlem Residences are they employing in that Mall. I went to the Gateway Center Mall in the Bronx a couple of weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon and it was empty?
Anon @10:35am, I think you are missing the point completely mate and comparing apples to oranges. The problems inherent with the East Harlem mall have been covered elsewhere in detail, one of which is the inaccessible location. I don't honestly know much about the Gateway Center Mall in the Bronx, but what we are talking about here is a hotel that will provide a great service to the community, coupled with a YMCA which I firmly believe will be a great resource for locals. As for locals being put out of business, I don't get it. For local eateries like Tonnie's, Chez Lucienne and the up and coming Red Rooster, this would be a tremendous addition. IF we get a Whole Foods, that will bring in a lot of shoppers who otherwise would be less prone to frequent the neighborhood. All in all, this is an exciting proposition.
ReplyDelete