According to a New York Post article published last night, Mojo at 185 St. Nicholas Avenue and 119th Street will possible be replaced by a spin-off of the somewhat expensive Upper East Side restaurant Le Bilboquet. The new bistro will be called Cedric after Le Bilboquet's general manager Cedric Lecendre who also happens to live in Harlem. Apparently the lease has been signed at this point and there will be live music as a focus of the new space. The Post also notes that Cedric follows the footsteps of the Red Rooster which was the first arrival of a new uptown eatery established by a well-known restauranteur from lower Manhattan. Read more in the Post: LINK. Check out MenuPages for a look at Le Bilboquet's offerings and prices: LINK
On the one hand, I liked Mojo(what happened anyway?) and it’ll be good to see Mojo’s space see some use. On the other hand, do we really need another overpriced joint in that area?
ReplyDeleteGreat news!
ReplyDeleteWhat DID happen to Mojo?
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with Christopher.
Yes, Mojo is officially closed, and Cedric is set to open mid June. And Harlem's own Dard Coaxum, Prince of Harlem, will be a Managing Partner
ReplyDeleteHopefully they will do a great steak and frites! Anybody know what is happening with the Italian 'Sandwich Shop' in the triangle building on the corner of 121st & St. Nicholas/FDB? Hoping that becomes more of a cafe/bar like Cafe Amrita on 110th.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know the exact demographics for this area? Why are all these new restaurants over priced? Can they really make it in an area where the majority of the population appears to be low income. Even Bad Horse has a $26 pizza - this is more expensive than any of the lauded places downtown or in Brooklyn. I don't see the FDB area as being a hot destination that will pull in tons of outsiders night after night, which is what must happen in order for a restaurant to stay in business.
ReplyDelete@foodlover or anyone who has eaten at Bad Horse—what do they put on a pizza to make it (in their minds) worth $26?
ReplyDelete@Sanou's Mum, Bad Horse Pizza's standard menu does not have $26 pies on it.
ReplyDeleteHere is the main menu: http://www.badhorsepizza.com/badhorsemenu.pdf
Looking at census data from last week, the influx of the new population above 110th Street and below 125th Street has jumped dramatically in the last 10 years. Whites and Asians make about 20% of the areas west of Lenox to Morningside Park with about 6,200 new resident within these two groups that traditionally are not low income. Include Morningside Heights and that number grows to about 16,000. Then there is the return of the black middle class which these numbers do not reflect. One would assume this is why some of the new businesses are reaching at a certain price point.
ReplyDeleteFirst, the new restaurants are generally packed on weekend nights - Red Rooster, Bier, 67 Orange, Bad Horse Pizza etc. The ones that aren't packed (Chocolat) have a bad product. So there clearly a market there. Not only the 6,000 new asian and white residents as of the 2010 census, but also all of the black professionals in harlem. Not to mention all of the grad students subletting floor-throughs of townhouses who may not be counted by the census. Second, if we're going to complain about $26 pizzas - which is really an outlier on the menu - let's compare to Applebees. Salads $16+, entrees 18+, appetizers 11+. How come nobody is complaining about that? I suspect people complaining are complaining based upon perception (e.g., place looks "fancy" so it's "too expensive"). Two people can come to Bad Horse, split a large pizza and a salad and have maybe a beer or two for $50. That's no more expensive than applebees, it's probably cheaper actually. I don't think there is room for 50 super expensive restaurants. But I don't think we've reach saturation yet. That said, I think there is a market for mid-priced pub type fare. Let's hope Harlem Tavern goes this route.
ReplyDeleteI still think moderately priced places like a diner, pub, Thai, Japanese, Indian, etc would make a killing. There is nothing like that in the area.
ReplyDeleteGG: Agree 100%. After splitting one of the "expensive" pies at Bad Horse, the impression I came away with was that it was actually a pretty solid value -- considering the quality of the food and enjoyably relaxed sit-down experience.
ReplyDeleteWe'll have to see about Cedric (and Harlem Tavern)... but in general I'd say that more of the types of places that made your list will definitely be welcome.
I'm not trying to knock Bad Horse - I'm sure it's delicious - but I was given a menu when I walked by and all the 16inch "house pies" were listed at $26. Maybe they made a printing mistake?
ReplyDeleteI, like everyone I suppose, am excited to see the new businesses but it does seem as if most everything new is upscale (actually I think Bier gets it right) and it would be nice to just have more variety. Sometimes I fear that FDB will develop like Dumbo which went from being really nothing at all to upscale with no in between.
Harlem is definitely changing with more diversity than ever, however the core population is low income. The price points for most new restaurant in Harlem are expensive. What’s even more baffling is other hoods like Lower East Side, Clinton Hill, and Prospect Heights, have more restaurant options and more reasonable pricing. There should be an abundance of affordable options (non fast-food) in Harlem – that’s not the case. Its starts with very high cost of commercial rent in Harlem, but that’s another discussion.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but even gentrifying yuppies wouldn't object a cheap pad thai or burrito in their neighborhood. Look at the upper west side, morningside heights, and even the freaking upper east side--they all have GENUINEly moderately priced ethnic fare and $10-12 italian joints in addition to the pricier places. You can't go out for fancy food every night (or in my case, more than once every couple of months)!
ReplyDeleteIt has been a wonderful boost to the neighborhood to have people like Marcus Samuelsson take a risk on 125th, along with Bad Horse Pizza, Chocolat (whom to be fair appear to be quite busy on weekends) and the various other upscale eateries up this way. The comments regarding mid/low priced quality cuisine are spot on. I think it is just going to take a bit of time for people to get their heads around Harlem now being the sort of place to come and open up a diner or thai place. For years Harlem has been a media dumping ground with negative press and slowly this is changing. If you look back over the past year and a half there are probably half a dozen or so new restaurants that have opened in Central/South Harlem. I think the trend will continue and East Harlem will also see it's fair share of openings. You will also see a continuation of positive media and more and more people moving in who view Harlem as a diverse, exciting, affordable and convenient place to live.
ReplyDeleteRestaurants have to be busy on more than just weekends to be successful. It boggles my mind that people are willing to invest big bucks on high end restaurants but not on places that would be busy every night.
ReplyDeleteC’mon though, someone spill. What happened to Mojo? They were even featured in an Amex ad.
Kuti's is not expensive and has gotten a number of accolades. It's true that it's tiny but let's not overlook it as an example of the cheaper fare people are bringing up.
ReplyDeleteBad Horse Pizza is actually not expensive for a base pizza, if your basis is Domino's then yes they might seem expensive because the pie is flat and not all bread and the ingredients are fresh.
ReplyDeleteIf however you have ever been to a proper pizza place such as Patsy's then you will know that this place is excellent value.
The house pizzas are $26 and they have toppings like butter sautéed garlic shrimp, artichoke hearts acropolis greek feta, baby spinach, sundried tomatoes, black olives, bad horse jalepeno-marinated skirt steak, sautéed spanish onion, rio grande chicken stewed with san marzano tomatoes, spanish onions, fresh chili peppers, cilantro, secaucus hot Italian sausage, ricotta, green peppers, roasted garlic cloves
pig and goat imported prosciutto, goat cheese, roasted red peppers, meatless japanese eggplant, sliced plum tomatoes, artichoke hearts, spinach.
I think that you can do a survey of the good pizza restaurants in the city and you will find that these prices are in line.
So the large, 3-topping house pie is the $26 range which is not reflected on the website. Patsy's large cheese pie starts out at $17 with $2.50 for each topping so that's a $24.50 pie in comparison.
ReplyDeleteSo the internationally known institution Patsy’s is cheaper than the we-just -opened-in-the-neighbourhood-please -come- try-us Dead Horse.
ReplyDeleteI dunno. Just seems to me there’s a more than enough hubris to spread over the majority of these start ups.
I'm definitely in agreement that this part of Harlem could use some more mid-priced fare - Thai, Japanese, Indian, a Diner, etc.
ReplyDeleteSanou's Mum - by this logic a new local italian place shouldn't try to charge more than the "internationally known" olive garden. Now, I do think Patsy's makes pretty good pizza, but it's no longer really on the top list city wide for pizza. Patsy's to me is a big step above most delivery fare, but I don't think it's a Grimaldi's or Di Fara ...
I guess I think Bad Horse gets it right. The place always seems slammed. Patsy's doesn't offer toppings like proscuitto and garlic shrimp; apples to apples it's the same. I think Bad Horse has an excellent product if you want true Naples style pizza. If you want a slice joint, there are ton of other places nearby to get that (Presidential Pizza, Pizzaria 123, etc.).
@Chris, for all the new restaurants that open in Harlem, several have failed i.e. Mojo, Frizzante, Talay, Body, Ginger, etc. It’s disappointing, but the restaurant owners should spend more time understanding their target audience, focus on great customer service, and appropriate pricing.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think anyone has ever accused the Olive Garden of being an Italian restaurant.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, Apple, I get your point. It’s just frustrating to me and I think to some others that every new restaurant that opens up here seems hellbent on pushing the price point as high as can be sustained. When it’s a world-class chef like Marcus Samuelsson I say great, go for it, it helps Harlem’s visibility and I am sure it is worth every penny. But when you are aiming to be a neighbourhood joint, could we get a bit of a break here?
SM: I don't disagree at all about the need for mid-range options. But I disagree with faulting these higher-end ventures for taking the risk and staking out a new (and likewise greatly under-served) space -- particularly when a number of them seem to be doing it well.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the comment Chris made above; it will indeed take some time for the popular zeitgeist to "catch up" to the new reality of opportunities that exist in Harlem for establishments of all kinds. But to that point, I think having a number of higher-end (and higher-profile) ventures succeed in Harlem will do more to carve out that mental space than if the "avante-gard" had consisted of a mid-range burrito joint or a thai place.
So -- perhaps we will be enjoying some affordable burritos and pad thai sooner, rather than later, on account of the Biers and the Bad Horses making good down the block. There is certainly enough demand (and commercial space) to accommodate those who have the wherewithal to make it happen.
In any event, I will be right there with you guys to applaud the arrival of mid-price fare. Just save me a stool at the diner...
I would add one more thing, which is that places like bad horse and even 5 and diamond with its burger at least have lower-priced options. to me, that's the most important thing, the idea that people can come and get something for under $13 bucks alongside the pricier fare. That's the secret of the success of all the places in the columbia neighborhood, in my opinion. everything from $10 spaghetti to $25 steak on the same menu. if this french bistro has some big "salades composees" or burgers and sandwiches alongside its fancier fare, i will be the first to say BIENVENUE!
ReplyDeleteWell, just to add my 2 cents. We ordered the 10" pig and goat pie (prosciutto, goat cheese, roasted red peppers) and it was delicious. Perfect crust, great toppings. However...this thing was small. Now, I know I was raised in the UK on lean mean English portions, but still, for $19 couldn't they spare a little more?! Also got the $7 salad which whilst tasting pretty good was again on the stingy side.
ReplyDeleteWhen I lived on the UES we had a place called Pintaile's, with equally as good pizza and toppings and they now offer 12" pies for $17.95 and 16" at $20.95. I think Bad Horse could easily bring theirs down into a similar range.
Chris: If you're in for the $19, why not go whole hog (and goat) at $26? :)
ReplyDeleteSeriously though -- and assuming I'm getting the math right -- the price per square inch for the larger premium pies is only $0.13, versus $0.24 for the smaller ones. So as long as you're not looking to scale back on the calories, the value proposition is titled pretty heavily toward the 16-inchers.
(While I'm at it, the comparable figures for the 'regular' pies are $0.07 for 16" and $0.14 for 10"...)
haha...maybe next time CBR ;) Still not too happy about the size of that $7 salad. Even my tortoise would complain about that!
ReplyDeleteCBR—would you please come with me to the supermarket? I stand in the aisles just about drooling trying to do the maths with sizes and brands, even when the shelf tags are there right in front of me.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who thinks mid/lower priced restaurants may have a harder time of it because "new" Harlemites and traditional residents don't commonly frequent the same eating establishments? As an African American who moved to the neighborhood within the last two years, I am a patron of the Red Rooster, Jacob's and the convenient Applebee's alike, but all have different clienteles. with upscale Red Rooster the most diverse.
ReplyDeleteIf someone opens a pizza place with priced low enough to attract all of Harlem, will all of Harlem come there? Just asking...
How does Bad Horse pizza compare to Covo's pizza?...Covo will be hard to beat!
ReplyDeleteHARLEM -- Councilwoman Inez Dickens has called for a boycott of a new French restaurant in Harlem, accusing the upscale uptown eatery of moving a group of black women to accommodate a group of white patrons earlier this month.
ReplyDeleteAt one point the group at Cedric Bistro included deputy Manhattan Borough President Rosemonde Pierre-Louis, but she left before the women were moved. However, she was called back to the restaurant by her friends later in the evening as the dispute over the move raged in the trendy spot.
In a tersely worded letter to the restaurant, which opened on St. Nicholas Avenue near 119th Street five months ago to rave reviews, Dickens accuses the owners of racism for moving the party of five high-powered black women on Feb 4.
"Racism against anyone in my community, in my district on my watch due to race, color, creed, sexual preference or perceived economic status is unacceptable," Dickens wrote in her Feb. 9 letter to the restaurant's co-owner Cedric Lecendre, who is white.
"Your policy of unequal treatment, strategic table placement, and disproportionate levels of service must immediately cease," Dickens wrote in her letter. "At this time, I am also supporting a boycott of your restaurant."
But the restaurateurs deny racism was the cause for the move -- adding that the group of black women spent seven hours eating and drinking at Cedric before confronting staff about Lecendre's decision to ask the group to move to make way for an existing reservation.
"Maybe that wasn't the smartest thing, but it happens in the restaurant industry. It had nothing to do with race, it had to do with that the restaurant was busy," co-owner Fabrizio Khanlari told DNAinfo. "If you were offended or upset, you would ask for the bill and leave, not order 3 or 4 more bottles of wine and stay until 11 p.m."
Dickens declined to comment, but a spokeswoman said Monday that she stood behind the letter.