Wednesday, December 14, 2011
☞ DRINK: An Earlier Last Call in Harlem?
An ABC local news report features Harlem this week since Community Board 10 is now seeking to have last call for all of Central Harlem's bars to 2:00 AM instead of 4:00 AM. A few of the new businesses along lower FDB such as Bier International or the Harlem Tavern already close at 2:00 AM so this will mainly affect some of the older establishments uptown. Nevertheless, the concern here is that more establishments will not open in Harlem if a 2:00 AM last call is implemented for all businesses. Thoughts?
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An ill concieved idea.
ReplyDeleteIf the bar crowd has to leave at 2am, they will just stay below 96 street.
Moreover this seems like it would impinge on the business of the upcoming sports bar and the upcoming lounge om Lenox.
Real good. Let's alienate one of the few industries that's shown an interest in the area.
I say all bars should be shuttered and condemned by the masses. All they bring is misery to our community and pull us further from our Christian ideals.
ReplyDeleteTerrible idea. Bars also bring foot traffic and people to the area at night. If bars in Harlem close at 2, people will start packing it in at 12:30 or worse, just stay below 96th street.
ReplyDeleteLate night bar closings are not a quality of life problem in Harlem - this is not the East Village, Lower East Side or the Meatpacking District. In fact Harlem could use more bars and restaurants! What detracts from the quality of life in Harlem are gangs, youth crews, and gun violence (a woman was shot by a stray bullet at FDB/116th around 5pm this past Sunday.)Where is the evidence to suggest that the 4am closings are bad for the community? This is just more nonsense from the backwards CB 10 trying to hold on to power and stop progress.
ReplyDeleteLaughable! So while we have wannabe gangsters carrying illegal firearms, dumb asses riding ATVs up and down FDB, the most pressing issue is making sure bars close a couple of hours earlier? Shaking my head in disbelief. For the love of God, bring some common sense and vision into Harlem politics.
ReplyDeleteI believe this is a move on the part of CB 10 expressly to discourage business from coming to Harlem. It's a ploy to hold onto their waning power -- they guys are out of control...
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Leslie. I want to see actual evidence that 4 am bar closings are a problem.
ReplyDeleteHowever, that being said, I don't know if I would walk to or from a Harlem bar at 2-4 am because I don't necessarily feel safe doing so. CB10 needs to focus on the youth crews and cutting down on gun violence. These bars and restaurants won't get the same level of business if residents don't feel safe enough to take advantage of the late hours.
And as far as Christian ideals go, the commenter makes the assumption that all residents of Harlem are Christian, or that all Christians share the same beliefs. Religion has nothing to do with this issue and religious arguments have no place in a civil legal issue.
"'I think we have way too many liquor establishments,' Hazel Dukes, a board member at Community Board 10 tells DNAinfo"
ReplyDeletehttp://gothamist.com/2011/12/13/the_bostonization_of_nyc_more_neigh.php
I think the point of bringing up the Christian aspect is to highlight how difficult things are in terms of even serving alcohol in Harlem because of idiotic rules about an establishment's distance from this or that church. It's a constant struggle, and it's not a huge leap to associate that silliness with the topic here.
ReplyDeleteNo one is judging the beliefs of Christians. Just the effect that many believers have on the rights of others.
Yeah, all those churches have done wonders in preventing the cycle of violence and despair in Harlem over the years.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the posters who have identified the real problem in Harlem as youth gangs and gun violence NOT late-night clubs. The lounges and restaurants on FDB are not dance clubs. They are frequented by adults who are the only anchor to this community being completely overtaken by gun-toting teens. Shame on Community Board 10!
ReplyDeleteThe idea that there is a "bar boom" in Harlem (per the comment in that Gothamist article) is a huge exaggeration. There are single streets in the East Village that have more bars than all of Harlem put together. Harlem has a long time to go before it catches up to any other neighborhood in Manhattan.
ReplyDeleteAnd having more law-abiding people on the street from 2 to 4am is a good thing for the neighborhood, not a bad thing. Compare walking down FDB below 125th at night to walking down 125th Street at night. Everything on 125th Street is closed. It's a ghost town at night. If it weren't for 125th St having buses running along it 24 hours a day, it wouldn't be safe to walk there at night.
But what would Hazel Dukes care? She's 79 years old. I guess it's past her bedtime anyway.
Occupy CB10. Join the Community Board. http://harlembespoke.blogspot.com/2011/12/serve-join-local-community-board.html
ReplyDeletetacony palmyra, I completely agree, Harlem has a long way to go to be anywhere close to the East Village bar density. If those CB10 members where honest, it is not about too many bars, it is all about resisting progress.
ReplyDeleteIf this was about a new public housing project, those same CB10 members would be falling over themselves to approve it regardless of quality of life.
ReplyDeleteIt's simple: close at 2am Sunday-Wednesday, 4am Thursday-Saturday. That will do little to affect business on bars/restaurants that bring in the bulk of their money during earlier hours on weekdays and later evenings closer to the weekend.
ReplyDeleteIf you really want to voice your opinion, go to a full board meeting. CB10 meets the first Wednesday evening of ever month and there is a public session where you are free to raise any issue you like.
Why should Harlem have a different closing time than the rest of Manhattan?
ReplyDeleteQuality of life issues. Last year I was targeted 6 times, twice by the same person, with what I like to call the bagging scam. They see a white person and knock there bag in to you. Then when there bag of light bulbs, hits the ground they get in your face and demand money for there Courvoisier. Last week there was a gang of children screaming and throwing garbage in the street at 2 in the morning.The police came twice, which was a huge shock, but did nothing. The neighborhood is full of empty and dilapidated buildings. There are shootings, robberies, and like someone else mentioned gangs of children on motorbikes racing up and down the streets. St Nicholas park is full of garbage. The streets are full of potholes. I love living in this community but I also feel the backlash to Harlem's new residents. After years of letting this lovely neighborhood fall to pieces, people are trying to change things, and these people clinging to power will just have to get used to it.
ReplyDeleteCan the board legally impose of closing time -- or is it just a powerless suggestion?
ReplyDeleteI think everyone has made some really great points. I personally think a good compromise would be the split-week schedule although my guess is that for cost purposes alone most bars may already do this.I don't know for sure.Secondly, I'd like to address the issue that was raised about Christian morals somehow being eroded by bars and lounges.I have been a Bible-believing, church-loving believer for 30 years and never has my faith or my moral compass been somehow corrupted by going to bars and lounges.In fact I went to college in the village and went to every live music joint and blues act down there sometimes until 4am. Being a Christian does not mean being isolated but rather insulated from those things that could damage your relationship with God and your fellow man/woman. Going to a bar no more does that than going into a McDonald's makes me a cheeseburger.
ReplyDeleteBars/lounges bring much needed foot traffic and physical presence to those pockets of Harlem that need to be illuminated.If these businesses literally Occupy Harlem there will less room for the riff-raffery that still pervades part of our community.Furthermore I take exception to those who propose curbing the hours as if somehow the people who frequent these bars and lounges are mobs of loud, do-nothing hoodlums. The ones who are spending money in these businesses are the working class, those who want a little bit of relief after a long day's toil. Reducing the hours will have a zero net effect on those concerns they have been raising.A better approach would be work in conjunction with NYPD's community affairs unit and the coalition of churches to create a ring of safety and creative alternatives for the youth to latch to. Coupled with a consistent campaign strengthening good parenting and close alignment with the school system will do loads more of a difference than cutting two vital business hours from bars/lounges.
As someone mentioned earlier the elections for CB 10 are coming up and those of us demanding change need to throw our hats in the ring and then get the vote out. These elections are not well attended and that is why the same old idiots get in and keep Harlem from realizing it's full potential.
ReplyDeleteChristian values my backside, pure and simple nonsense. I will not reiterate the many brilliant point brought up by others on that issue. Let the businesses come and flourish and let us take over CB10 and move the community forward.
On a separate note regarding the gangs etc, these kids dress and act like "bad men and bad women" until the cops stop and frisk or crack down and then people start screaming racism, profiling etc. so what are the cops to do?
Why do so many of you choose to live in Harlem, if the quality of life is as you describe? And how does someone dress like a bad man or woman, except differently than you, HarlemBBC? I am a professional who lives in a luxury condo, smack in the middle of Central Harlem, and the quality of life disturbances you describe are few and far between. The street noise and nighttime trashing of the streets was much worse in the tony Greenwich Village neighborhood where I lived for the previous 15 years. Harlem has something of a gang problem, but I suspect you see any group of young black men as a gang. I think your elitist, even racist preconceptions may be coloring your perceptions, as some of you show up here singing the same old tune all the time.
ReplyDeletevalgb there you go jumping the gun and calling me a racist.
ReplyDelete1) I am black
2) When I was growing up and you wore your clothing as these kids do you were considered a "bad man" i.e a criminal and by the way that entire look of pants to your knees showing your dingy underpants was born in prison. So if you choose to dress like a person straight out of prison then you can only expect to be treated like a prisoner.
3) I love Harlem otherwise I would not live here but I also like safe clean streets, if that offends you then I wonder who really has the problem here.
4) Like some people I have met in my time you see a statement or statements that you do not agree with an immediately label them to fit your ideas. Please do not label me thanks!!
I live on 116th street and let me tell you the street is constantly full of trash from folks who could care less and just drop their crap where they stand feel free to walk the street one day and you too can bear witness.
5) I will not even give your gang comment any credence as to be frank it was silly and misguided.
6) If wanting and expecting more from my neighbourhood is elitist then yes I raise my hand I am an elitist.
I hope this answers your rant!!
@HarlemBBC: Being Black does no exempt one from being either elitist or racist. Also, when you speak your mind it's okay, but when I do, it's a rant? I'm glad to hear that, like me, you want what's best for Hsrlem. My comment to you only had to do with labeling people good or bad based on how they dress. If you feel like the subject of my other comments, that's on you.
ReplyDeleteHarlemBBC, agreed, some people not only want to dress the bad man but wear it like a badge of honor, it is not just the saggy pants but the whole demeanor and awful language. To quote Bill Cosby, You can't land a plane with "why you ain't…". You can't be a doctor with that kind of c**p coming out of your mouth. Call me elitist but, words fail me.
ReplyDeleteValgb let's be real, in the real world everyone is labeled and how you look precedes who you are this has always and will always be true, unfortunate or not.
ReplyDeleteHow do you decided your mate? You see them and you say damn she/he looks hot as heck and I want to get to know them because obviously you cannot see their thoughts. Hence if you dress and behave like a "thug" then you will be seen and treated as such that is my point.
The term racist is tossed way too much is my second point, people often toss it at folks who expect more form their compatriots than "Yo Mutter Fudder"!!
Not saying this is you but pointing out that is often the case. I mean Malcolm X called martin Luther King an Uncle Tom for petes sake!! Gandhi was called a traitor because he was unwilling to take up arms.