The New York Times reports on the details of last Friday's final-hour approval to increase the charter school cap in the state. In a move to qualify for $700 million in federal grant money for New York State's cash-strapped education system (the "Race to the Top" fund), the Legislature agreed to more than double the number of charters that state officials can issue. The tough negotiations between politicians and the teachers' union needed a breakthrough before the holiday break in order to meet the U.S. Department of Education's June 1st deadline for "Race to the Top" applications. Even though Mayor Bloomberg and the city's Schools Chancellor Joel Klein have been pushing for more charter schools, many in City Hall and throughout the state have resisted until now. Currently, New York City is almost at its cap of 100 charter schools and this number will now increase to 214. Read more details in last week's Times: LINK.What is a charter school? Community members or organizations can compose a "charter" and, if approved, form a new public school with greater autonomy from the regulations of the traditional system, offering families a free alternative to an under-performing neighborhood school.
What does the cap-increase mean for Harlem? Under the new law passed by the Legislature, the state will apparently be regulating the location of new charter schools. Since the Times noted complaints that Harlem is already "saturated" with charters, leading to tussles over issues like shared space with traditional public schools in city buildings, it is unclear if officials will allow more to open in the neighborhood. Out of Manhattan's current 29 charter schools, 24 of them are in the neighborhoods above 96th Street. Read more of the stats in the Gotham Gazette: LINK. Photo by Ulysses
There will never be enough Charters to meet the demand. Charters enroll kids via lottery. Its set up so most kids can't get in. If Charters have any use at all, its in keeping other folks undersocialized latchkeys away from your kid so he or she can learn in peace. While the undersocialized latchkeys are left to rot in the Public School System.
ReplyDeleteHarlemites agitated for more Charter schools harder than anybody and now they are telling them they can't have any more. Funny how that works out.
This is a lot of hoopla for a lousy 700 Million. The NYC Dept. of Ed's budget was 17 Billion in '07 according Wiki. What good is 700 Mil spread statewide going to do even if we get it? NYC won't see a dime of it, I'm sure.
Come to think of it, I halfway hope Harlem schools STAY crappy. It may be the only thing keeping the locals from being priced out of Harlem altogether.
Harlem has a vast density of Sec. 8 & Public housing dwellers entrenched & immune to the cost of living in Manhattan. These people ARE the locals. They'll never be priced out of Manhattan and have no incentive to better their lot. Why pay $2K/Mo to live at 143 & Lenox at Savoy Gardens for a 2 bedroom when you can live 2 blocks from Central Park at 112th & Lenox Public Housing for $200/Mo with fabulous views?
ReplyDeleteYou're right though, the crappy schools function as a "brake" on the real estate sector in Harlem "throttling back" and preventing Harlem of ever really experiencing significant housing demand by families with children. Sure you can find a few, but generally once the kids get to school age, it's far cheaper to buy property where there are decent public schools and devote that money to a mortgage.
2 elementary school aged kids going to school in Manhattan is $50K/yr minimum = the annual cost on a typical 30 yr fixed $700K mortgage ($4K/Mo.). If you've got 2 kids, the real cost of a $1M house in a good public school district is about $300K. This is why it's very common to see people move out of Harlem once their kids are preK and K aged.
Isn't that the point of more charters? Free options for improved education. Poor public schools are a citywide problem. Most people either send their kids to private schools or move to the suburbs. Charters provide a third option. Our friends in Brooklyn are having the exact same problem in deciding where to live when planning their future family.
ReplyDeleteVic Vega, what a moronic statement. I can't think of any scenario where a poor education system is a benefit to society. Narrow minded and insular. Are you also a cheerleader then for random shootings across Harlem? Because, you know, that may also be the 'only thing keeping the locals from being priced out of Harlem altogether'.
ReplyDeleteThere are lots of low income locals and non-locals who would give anything to see better schools. What a crazy thought. The charter schools are overrun by low income/low middle income parents who fear the public schools. Mind you that some of the Charters are not good either.
ReplyDeleteAt some point we will all be priced out of Manhattan. Right now the income barrier is probably at 30K for an individual(?!) I am not sure if you can call it "lucky" if you made it into public housing or S8 (which is over now)...no way I would want to go there.
What I don't quite get in the pubic/charter school debate is why the public schools are not being improved if there are so bad? Why not fix something that is already there? What am I missing? If there are so many "hard to handle" "under-performing" "not sure what the best term is" children in Harlem (citywide) why not build some special ed schools for them?
What Vic Vega said is blatantly racist. No doubt about it.
ReplyDeleteSimply "fixing" public schools is not that easy, especially thanks to the teacher's unions. Read this excellent piece:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/magazine/23Race-t.html?src=me&ref=magazine
The Board of Ed has been working to fix the public schools for years, without success. The inflexibility of the teachers union is partly to blame. But regardless, charter schools offer parents choice. My husband, a longtime educator, opened a charter school in Queens where they offer a high quality education to an incredibly diverse population. 80% of his students qualify for the free lunch program, so the school is appealing to poor and middle class alike. Successful charter schools will force the public schools to compete, and that's a good thing.
ReplyDelete@ Citycollegian, Alblative: You might very well get shot in public housing so that is a drawback there, I imagine. At least I'm honest. I'm for anything that improves the neigborhood as long as I'm not utterly priced out of it as a result. 30K a year to live in Manhattan? I don't see how but I'm not in a PJ or Section 8, either.
ReplyDelete@ Chris, Anon 10:48: I AM a harlem local. I'm also a self intrested cynic and proud of it.
Most charters are a scam in my opinion. I'm not a teacher and I don't have kids so I've no axe to grind (save for what I mentioned above).
There is a self selection process invoved here that would automatically make them better than public schools.
The motivated parents try to get their kids in charters. Motivated parents=better students. Charters also don't have to take the special needs kids that the public school system does.
Charters take resources away from the Public Schools that could be used for thier improvement. But hey, one in four Harlem kids will be decently educated so hey its all good.
I know this isn't Wonkette but do try to lighten up. Jeez.
Making a blanket statement that charters are a "scam" without any evidence to support the opinion is ignorant and dangerous. Unfortunately too many people are comfortable with status quo, no matter how awful it is, hence the old-time Harlem political machine, terrible schools, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe charter schools in Harlem are by and large well run and excellent. Harlem Childrens' Zone Promise Academies and Harlem Success Schools are the two best known.)
ReplyDeleteI suggest that those who know nothing about charter schools in Harlem and/or the dire need for them, read the book about Geoffrey Canada called Whatever It Takes by Paul Tough. You will be enlightened. As many have already pointed out charter schools are mostly in poor neighborhoods and give parents an option they would otherwise never have. Also remember, charter schools are public schools; their additional funding comes from their ability to get private support based on innovative approaches to learning. The traditional public school system is a disaster (especially for the poor neighborhoods without clout to get additional public dollars) and there are too many competing interests for the system experience meaningful change at this point. The long term hope is that charters will force public schools to change for the better. Currently there is a waiting list of 40,000 for charter school enrollment in NYC.
Harlem is a better place because of charters and will be a better community for EVERYONE moving forward if charters expand.
The best schools will never replace a lack of parent’s involvement in their child’s education.
ReplyDelete@ west sider. No kidding. Part of the reason schools are bad in neighborhoods with such a density of section 8 and public housing has to do with the home environment and the parents involvement. I watched as a women came just short of beating her child on FDB the other day and thought how challenging it must be for both the school and child. Unfortunately, in order to bring up the quality of the schools, you have to bring in more parents who value education for their children, who get involved. I am happy to pay more for my housing if the people in my community can send their kids to a decent public school, because those children rather than joining teenage gangs, might actually get the self confidence to do something with their lives. The idea poor public schools is a benefit because it keeps the price of the rent in the neighborhood down is the saddest thing I have ever heard on this blog.
ReplyDelete12:55pm - you are right. one of the positive aspects of charter schools is that the parents must get involved on some level or the child will eventually lose his or her spot in that school; it may sound harsh but it's the strict rules and regulations regarding attendance, homework, behavior, etc. that work and the parents (or at least the ones in it for the long haul) know this and get involved. also poor parents often need lots of encouragement and instruction themselves in learning how to help their children do well in school. in an ideal world this would not be the case but...
ReplyDeleteSo which ones are the top charters in Harlem? I hear a lot about Harlem Success Academy and the Children's Zone project. Are there any good public schools? Or is everybody trying to get a spot on the UWS?
ReplyDeleteWhere do you guys send your little ones?
I'd make a few points
ReplyDelete1) First, the public school situation in Harlem is improving. PS 180 is good and PS 125 looks to be rapidly on the rise - this was a formerly failing school that is being turned around partly due to the competition from Charter schools and partly due to a group of dedicated parents willing to help turn it around. There are also some good options farther North as well as G&T options ..
2) The only option is NOT zoned public school or $30k+ a year private schools. For example, there are some wonderful parochial school options
3) This to some extent is a citywide problem, and hasn't stopped families from staying. Mornginside Heights and Carnegie Hill, for example, actually don't have great public schools either. Brooklyn Heights has improved recentely but still doesn't have great public schools. So this alone does not kill Harlem.
4) While there ARE other options for people in Harlem who can't afford the $35k/year tuitions (some of the schools I mentioned, G&T programs, charter schools, parochial schools), the entire neighborhood benefits from good schools so it's in everybody's interest to improve them - crime will be lower. The smart, motivated kid who doesn't have involved parents will have a shot.
In summary - there are some good options in Harlem even now; families in lots of neighborhoods in NYC have moved to neighborhoods without good public schools and this always preceeds the public schools improving; Harlem parents who are determirmed to find a good option for their kids probably can even if they are not wealthy if they are willing to do the work ... BUT BUT BUT .. the entire neighborhood benefits from good public schools over the long term. So get involved - this is not static and it CAN change. It IS changing in fact.
Thanks for your observations @GreenGirl.
ReplyDeleteYeah, cheers GreenGirl. One question though. Are the parochial schools over here state schools (as they are in the UK)? Or do you have to pay to go to them? Is it also party of a lottery system?
ReplyDeleteI think our local catholic church has a school attached to it.
the parochial schools are run by the archdiocese. Tuition is fairly modest compared with private schools in the city. Some are better than others.
ReplyDeletethe irony is that most of the newcomers in harlem arent welcome in the charter schools. so actually they stand less of a chance of getting a decent public school education for their kids.
ReplyDeleteWhere is it written that the middle class are not welcome? It's a public school. That means everyone is qualified. The lottery does not discriminate.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the statement of 4:43pm "newcomers aren't welcome." Charters are lotteries. Also is "newcomer" code for "white"? Recently in an interview Eva Moscowitz of Harlem Success was asked why there was only 1% white enrollment at her schools and she said that at this point white parents are not joining the lotteries and that she wishes that would change. Maybe white middle class people moving to Harlem are still afraid that the schools, charter or not, will be under performing. It is hard for perceptions to change.
ReplyDeleteand the lotteries are "blind," meaning that the school adminstrators have no idea who the families are ahead of time. It's a painful, but ultimately fair process.
ReplyDeleteWell, I am sure that most lotteries are lotteries but I have experienced first hand how some seats are given out not quite lottery style. Lots of times they are happening behind closed doors, and there are some arrangements/favoritism.
ReplyDeleteChris, what catholic church are you involved with?
ReplyDeleteThe parochial schools are of mixed quality - some great, some mediocre - but they are much cheaper than private schools, and many have a sliding scale so those who can't afford full tuition can still go.
Listen, folks, you can improve the public schools. Every nabe in NYC that has a great school was made great by dedicated parents - teacher's unions and all. Don't give up hope; fight, join, and volunteer.
Chris - you shoud join Harlem Parent's Network.
http://www.harlem4kids.com ... There is a lot of discussion about schools there and it's a very active community of parents looking to change Harlem from within. They also have other events like storytime for toddlers, etc. Your child is probably a little young but they grow up fast
"...why there was only 1% white enrollment at her schools and she said that at this point white parents are not joining the lotteries and that she wishes that would change..."
ReplyDeleteIt's not only white enrollment that's 1%. Do some research and I doubt you will find a Black family with a child at that school whose income enables them to send their kids elsewhere. An ugly truth.
I highly doubt that school has a single Black student whose family income exceeds $200K. This "White enrollment" is no valid litmus test, it's just diversion. The more revealing truth is why Blacks won't send their kids to that school, Blacks who live nearby and have a decent family income.
I walk by Harlem Success Academy in the morning every day. Just look at the parents, that school is 90% "GHETTO" to the core. Don't believe me? Go stand there one morning and observe. However having said that, I admire the objective of the school to "cleanse" the Hot Ghetto Mess out of the innocent kids. It's a very strange thing to watch, their are bars and barriers preventing parents from entering school grounds. Just watch it one day.
@Anon 8:57—you got some issues, B. Didn’t you post awhile ago about what you considered poor wages for school staff?
ReplyDeletebtw, there is restricted public access for almost any school, for parents or others. Sad commentary on today’s life but if you have ID and a reason to be there. . .
i was the one who posted the original "it's ironic" comment - what i meant was that even if a middle class kid could get past the lottery and get in, from what i have heard they are not given the same kind of encouragement and attention and that parents have been told the charter schools "arent for them", that they are "taking the spot of a kid who has no other options"....when in truth, here in the most expensive city in the country, middle class kids dont have many options either.
ReplyDeletejust wanted to clarify what i meant.
Holy smokes. The paranoia aswirl on this thread is really heartbreaking. There is no conspiracy to keep any child from entering a lottery, winning a seat, or thriving once admitted.
ReplyDeleteHi Anon 10:00
ReplyDeleteEva Moscowitz from Harlem Success Academies said in an interview in 2009 that 5,000 families hoped for one of 475 seats and 2010 is even way tougher...not so easy getting a spot even with a legit lottery system....just saying...
GreenGirl,
I heard that Columbia/Teacher's College is going to put there PS into the PS 125 site...is that a rumor? Anyone knows?
sorry for the typos...should have been "even" and not "even way" and "their" not "there"...low income + public school, what can I say ;)
ReplyDeleteabelive - that's correct from what i heard
ReplyDeleteTo poster at 8:57pm - I live across the street from Harlem Success #4 and I do not see what you see. Instead I see parents holding their children's hands and happily walking them to school by 7:30am. And I see them punctually picking up the kids in the afternoon - the kids look happy and full of energy and the parents look no different than anyone else - just because someone is poor and maybe looks "ghetto" or seems uneducated doesn't mean that they don't want something better in life if the opportunity presents itself - if not for themselves then for their children.
ReplyDeleteThere is a push in this city to add charter schools, people without children or grown up children advocating for Charter Schools. There are some great public schools, I too at first put my child in a so called best charter school in the city and suppose to be the model for the rest of the charters school. It was the worst experience I've ever seen in the history of schools period. Assistant principles calling children stupid the principles making excusing that she was having a bad day? I can't even tell you some of the unprofessional behavior of the adults in that school. I put my child in the zone public school that I was running from and it was the best thing we did. The school was a great fit; she is flourishing in that school. My husband and I did our homework, went to the open houses, tours researched on-line etc. for two years to find a good school, and that is what we came up with. Don't believe the hype. Know your child’s needs and pick the best school for that child. Charters schools have high staff turn over rate, charter schools will get rid of children who they feel don't fit the model of the school, if a children has ADD. ADHD, IEP, learning disability etc. don't bother putting your child in a charter school. I watched 7-8 teachers leave that school every year my child was in there, every year parents pulled their children out of those school. You don't hear about all of those stats on the news.
ReplyDelete