So, we might have gotten someone to check out the public hearing at 110 Williams Street for the proposed 125th Street Harlem Hyatt this morning, and here are the pictures to prove it (Emmitt Smith is at the center of the lower photo, right after the meeting)! Click on image to enlarge.Our reporter noted that the room was set up for around 100 people, and the seats were filled to capacity by 10:10 AM. The famous football pro, Emmitt Smith, was first to speak (quite eloquently) and lamented that Harlem has the density of Atlanta but no world-class hotel, except the yet-to-be-complete Aloft Hotel, to represent the uptown neighborhoods. Mr. Smith also brought up the promise of union jobs; about two thirds of the room represented construction unions and a large contingent from a local hotel workers' union.
At the hour-long meeting, roughly a dozen community board members, local business reps and even a prominent broker from the area had three minutes each at the podium to address the public and the Economic Development Corporation (EDC). Every speaker pushed for the development to get approval, citing the importance of creating new jobs and keeping those jobs local (50% of the hotel jobs will directly go to the community as promised).
So what now? The EDC board will reconvene next Tuesday at 9:00 AM to announce their decision on whether to approve the $20 million in tax exempt bonds needed for this project to proceed. One speaker, who wanted to know more about wages associated with the large development, hinted at reported blanks on the application, but nobody else really brought up the incomplete parts of the paperwork. Should be quite interesting, so stay tuned. The location will also be the same, 110 Williams Street (at Fulton Street), 4th Floor, Room 4 A/B. Closest subways to get this location are the 2, 3 or the A,C.
Excellent!!! Thanks for the update Ulysses! Good luck to Emmitt Smith and his team....Harlem needs this project to get built!
ReplyDeleteThanks Ulysses for the update and this wonderful blog. This is great news - let's hope this continues.
ReplyDeleteExcellent news, good reporting Ulysses, who knows, this may actually happen, and providing jobs for locals is a positive for Harlem, maybe I could apply for a position:)
ReplyDeleteTo anon 8:55: the two individuals you argue don't have the wherewithal to complete such a project are Hall of Famers. They're legends on and off the football field. They have the will and the means to get this thing up and running and I've already guaranteed it in past posts.
ReplyDeleteJune 4, 2010 7:49 AM
This is the third time I'm going out on the limb to guarantee this project. No looking back now for Harlem regardless of macroeconomic conditions.
anon 12:31 - does your guarantee include the whole foods???? to me that's the most pie in the sky of the whole deal.
ReplyDeleteWhole Foods and the YMCA was also mentioned repeatedly. One speaker talked about the need to have better supermarkets in Harlem.
ReplyDeleteanon @1:06pm, in fact the opposite is true. I think my faith is this project has been revitalized with this excellent update. Whole Foods is very much a reality and could potentially be a huge catalyst for growth within Harlem. This is a vital, central location (unlike the unfortunate location of the East River Plaza project) and a Whole Foods will mean a great deal to the area, especially when coupled with the other projects destined for 125th.
ReplyDeletealthough..before getting too carried away, do we know if Whole Foods have agreed to build in this location upon approval of the project, or is it more of 'would like to have' sort of thing?
ReplyDeleteI would love to see this project succeed, but I have strong doubts. They had projected the cost at $80 million. Union labor doesn't come cheap. A professional football player might be able to find the funds when they (predictably)run over budget but that depends on how far over budget they run.
ReplyDeleteI suggest Emmitt Smith put in a contract penalty clause for when the project inevitably runs over time the contractor then has to pay a penalty to the developer for delays, it may end up costing less.
ReplyDeleteI attended this morning's hearing and was impressed with both the community representatives and developers...anon12:31, I am in agreement that this will happen!!
ReplyDeleteRegardless of what they open up as retail, the hotel will have a positive impact on Harlem on all fronts-- tourism, jobs, and will cover an eyesore. Let us all welcome it with open arms.
ReplyDeleteGREAT NEWS !! It will help Harlem is vital ways. Truly needed....More More more !
ReplyDeleteToday I had a conversation with a NYC developer (with 2 hotels under his belt) about this project. In a nutshell he pointed out that the initial purchase of the land is the only cost savings aspect of this "would-be development" from any other hotel development and it makes no sense. Specifically, the unions, labor cost, etc. materials will be no different than if this hotel was built in midtown and at the end of the day, the rate the hotel would have to charge won't be tremendously lower than the rate of a hotel in many other areas of Manhattan with more viable amenities in walking distance charge. He said 70% full is the break even point, he could see weekend fill ups, however doubted the hotel could attract Monday-Thursday business at the needed levels for this to make sense, at the rate they would have to charge. In sum, he did not see the numbers adding up to this possibly being financially viable. He focused on the cost to build and maintain, thought the one time lower cost of the land was not at all a viable trade off, as opposed to pime to amenities of Manhattan (for the Tourist and Business hotel seeking customer).
ReplyDeletewell, that's interesting. But then how to chains such as the Holiday Inn etc open in places like Long Island City Queens where the amenitites and access are less desireable? Unions and materials are a factor there as well. I'm not saying that this is a slam-dunk, indeed it's risky. But I suspect there are ways to make the numbers work--which may involve another slightly lower end chain.
ReplyDeleteThen does that mean Aloft doesn't make sense either? I see European tourist in Harlem all year round. They can stay up here instead of midtown. New York developers who choose to stay in midtown, queens, etc... don't have vision.
ReplyDelete7:33 - It sounds like your developer friend knows it all without actually being involved in the proposed Hyatt deal...amazingly insightful!
ReplyDeleteHas he researched the viability of this specific project in Harlem? If not, what is he basing his assumptions on?....this guy even knows what the vacancy rate will be! Can you ask him for the lottery numbers for me?
All projects are unique on a number of fronts....generalizing without knowing the specifics about a particular deal highlights ones ignorance and arrogance.
Viability of project: Who knows? People love to visit NYC, and if they charge even 10% less than midtown then that will make it a deal for many people.
ReplyDeleteUnion labor: A non-issue. You can't build a hotel in NYC without union labor, and real developers prefer union work. The hotel staff would be union in any case.
Good for Harlem?: I say yes. Some locals would get jobs and development is needed. The locals who are opposed are against everything and anything at all.
7:33, you're wrong. When it comes to fringe markets (which Harlem is one), people generalize all the time and end up being right on target. For example, did it take a crystal ball to see Dancy Automotive made no sense? How about Emperor's Roe? Harlem Tea Room? Most people I know easily predicted these businesses made no sense and were not viable. I assure you this store "N Boutique" will be out of business within 2 years, I've never seen a customer in the store, they can't even afford to get a sign put up. That's not being ignorant or arrongant, that's seeing they have no customers, they have no sign (having a sign of your street level retail establishment is business 101, when you can't afford to have a sign, do you really have what it takes to be in business?). These "upscale" businesses made no sense based on the demographics and their business model and one can see this from far away if you know the demographics and the market. Another Example? "Swing", a life style store. That store will be out of business within 2 years, it's rather obvious when you see how empty the place is all the time.
ReplyDeletePersonally I hope the Hyatt gets built as I will gain personally from it. However in the real world, I know the only way it can get approved is by bamboozling money sources. Fleecing the tax payer is pretty easy, and it appears the football player was able to do that with ease. However it's not so easy to fleece private investors. However having said that, private investors get fleeced every single day.
Certain businesses in Harlem make no sense, don't add up, and you can see far ahead of time they are not viable financially. Again, not ignorance or arrogance, just knowing the lay of the land. Another example? "Gospel". I am a Harlem business owner, I was talking to another Harlem business owner, I hear the HARVARD MBA guy is losing his shirt with Gospel and learned that making money off the Church crowd is no way to go. Everybody knows money is made on alcohol in this business space. I own a business in Harlem, I do not live in New York, however I was told the owners of Gospel have changed their name? Is this so? And have focused their business model on selling alcohol? Is that so? I am not looped in, however the only thing I want to communicate is here you have established Harlem based Harvard MBA people thinking they can open a restaurant (Gospel) and make money with that business model, the church crowd? It was not arrogant or ignorant to predict it's failure. I hear it's failed hence the retooling. No, I don't expect an inexperienced developer like Emmitt Smith who's a football player and dancer with the stars to be able to pull this off. You see even the Harvard MBA can't, yet you think Emmitt can't.
Certain business models in Harlem don't require great business acumen or a crystal ball, to see they simply have little to no chance. The Harlem market is no where near as upscale (Hyatt) as people like to market and hype up, and most business models reliant on this myth will ultimately fail, not hard to see and or predict. If you told me a Motel 6, or a Comfort Inn, or the like downscale hotel was opening and charging $89/room, it would succeed like crazy. This will never be built. I know someone who tried to buy the land in 2007 from the guy who owns it, the guy then wanted $150M for the lot.
My friend said this, that and the other. This guy wanted this much. Blah, blah, blah. Fact is, this is probably the most suitable piece of real estate in Harlem to maximize ROI potential. Fact. The usual suspects who didn't take the opportunity to buy in Harlem come out of the woodwork to talk down this sort of thing. Sorry, but this project IS viable and as somebody already mentioned, there are successful hotels in far worse locations within the five boroughs.
ReplyDeleteI agree w/ Kissiffer - the Hyattt isn't exactly a super expensive hotel, and Harlem is a pretty big tourist attraction. Consider its proximity to Columbia University, Yankee Stadium, CUNY, Central Park, etc.
ReplyDeleteAnd Whole Foods is doing great on 98th street -and Manhattan Valley is not so different socioeconomically than Harlem. A whole foods is a lot different than a caviar bar ...
A hotel development cannot be compared to a local clothing boutique or caviar bar. The hotel's source of revenue is NOT the local market.
ReplyDeleteThe Hyatt project may succeed; it may not. It may be dependent on some sweetheart financing. If it is indeed built, it will succeed, because by that point there will have been countless studies and due diligence done to make sure it pencils.
And let's be realistic about Mr. Smith's role in the project. Heck, it's probably more likely that he's taking money out, rather than putting money in. He's a figurehead; not the developer.
anon @ 12:26...who cares what he is as long as it is built? Magic Johnson succeeded with the multiplex and Starbucks that he co-owns on 125th. When he opened each of these he got a ton of s**t saying they were destined to fail. Same old story. There will also be the downers out there to make us all aware of how the project may or may not succeed. Doesn't take a genius to work that one out.
ReplyDeleteChris,
ReplyDeleteI wasn't trying to say I care either way what he is or isn't. Just addressing the numerous comments made about his experience, what he can or can't get done, his qualifications, etc. People act as if it's on his shoulders whether this thing gets done or not, but that's just not the case.
No worries anon, just one or two peeps on here seem to thrive on the negative. I see where are you coming from.
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:17, I agree with almost all your points.
ReplyDeleteWill the meeting re the approval be open to the public today?
ReplyDeleteWill the board still be making their decision re the hotel on today? i noticed that the agenda for today made no mention of such action.
ReplyDeleteAnon, looks like it is listed here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nycedc.com/AboutUs/PublicMeetings/NYCCRCBoardMeeting/Documents/June%202010%20CRC%20Agenda.pdf
Item D: New Transaction Resolutions
a. ESmith Legacy Harlem, LLC
Thx Chris, guess I viewed the wrong agenda.
ReplyDelete