Apparently Aloft is still actively looking to hire some Harlem hipsters to be part of the staff for their estimate August 5th opening but some folks are still in doubt of that date based on the state of the construction site these days. We mentioned last week that there was a Craig's List ad that had an open call for movers and shakers to interview for new positions (at the sister branch of the W Hotel chain), and it seems round two is happening this week. See more details on the Craig's List job post: LINK. The top photo shows the South Harlem construction as of this weekend and most the exterior scaffolding has been down for some time but windows are still missing on the upper levels of the building. There's about seven weeks to go so this boutique establishment will have to pick up the pace a little if they are going to meet the already delayed deadline. Based on the look of the interiors, these guys will probably need some additional time to get those details right. The closest subway to this location on FDB/8th Avenue and 124th Street is the A,B,C,D on 125th Street. Read all about the history of this construction in our past post: LINK. Current photo by Ulysses
Question, when you say, "The top photo shows the South Harlem construction....". 1. Why in this case do you make it a point to write in language a distinction from "Harlem"? 2. Would your writing or the reporting or blogging been marginalized in some way had you simply said "Harlem"? 3. When you write about the Red Rooster, will you be consistent and always refer to it's location as "Central Harlem" making a distinction from as you say, "South Harlem" and "Harlem"?
ReplyDeleteI've lived in Harlem for about 40 years and have read lots of media about areas below 125th St. in the NYT, Blogs, other media, industry publications, etc. It's unusual for anyone to refer to anything located at 124th St. & FDB as "South Harlem" and not just "Harlem". I suppose technically one can make the argument that it qualifies as "South Harlem" by what? 100' or so? Is the location not about 100' or so from 125th St? I thought so.
Does anyone know if the A Loft also considers itself to be in "South Harlem" as opposed to simply "Harlem"?
Racism can be subtle. It's often seen by the lengths one goes to separate and make themselves distinct from the whole. "Manhattanville", reaching back to history to justify modern day efforts to separate and make distinct.
Ever heard the term, "United we stand, Divided we fall"? There's a lot of "dividing" and "separating" going on these days in Harlem in the form of language I see. I will be very interested to see if this blog is consistent and always refers to the Red Rooster as being in Central Harlem. The pattern I see is if it's viable, desirable, and located above 125th St., well then it's in Harlem. People are most receptive to being inclusive in language and not separating and making distinct, when it's something appealing that's above 125th St. However if it's viable, desirable, and below 125th St., EVEN BY A HAIR, as in this case, well then it's separate from Harlem, it's "SoHa" or "South Harlem" (not to be confused with Harlem), which is a whole 100' away.
Race & Class distinction, alive and well and used in language in many places, this place included. Shameful. When there's branding value world wide, as in the name of this Blog, then people use "Harlem", you should change the name of this blog to South Harlem.
Anon 8:37 - you are way off the mark and using a simple geographical term to spin a racial story that exists only in your mind. You say racism is subtle? Your own racism appears to be blatant.
ReplyDeleteYeah, this is total nitpickery.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Anon 8:37 is that far off the mark at all. . . I know the ludicrous term SoHa makes me want to gag.
ReplyDeleteIt's too early for this...
ReplyDeleteP.S. - don't get too crazy about the geographic distinctions because the focus of attention has shifted to 119th to 130th streets along Lenox Ave which will become Harlem's core and its main attraction....if that makes you feel better.
I'm sure that SOHO made people want to gag, and Tribeca, and NOHO, etc. There is no need to freak out about some silly real estate terminology.
ReplyDeleteI have wondered for some time what it's been like for the owners/residents of the building that is being sandwiched between the two wings of the Aloft. How are they faring through this construction? Is anyone living there while this construction is going on?
ReplyDelete8:37 did ask 3 thought provoking questions. I have notice this blogger also refers to "The Little Gym in South Harlem" (123rd St.). Google the term "South Harlem" and you'll see it's primarily only this blogger and this blog that perpetuate the separateness and distinction of the identity "South Harlem". This blogger also identifies NYSC as in "South Harlem", and not in Harlem.
ReplyDeleteAloft Harlem, The Little Gym Harlem, and NYSC Harlem all specifically use the word HARLEM in their very names, on all levels, corporate, media, pr, etc. They only reference themselves as being in Harlem, period. These 3 Harlem businesses that are literally a simple stones throw away from 125th St. don't seek to separate and make themselves distinct from Harlem, contrary to this blogger, they embrace Harlem in their name without having the need or desire to preface it, separate it in name and make it distinct from the whole. Yet this blogger does (separates and makes distinct) these Harlem businesses every single time. The evidence is clear, it can be googled, this blogger is hell bent on insisting Aloft, The Little Gym, & NYSC are not in Harlem but in "South Harlem".
Yes, I think a pattern of class distinction is at play here, it's rather obvious. It's also silly and ridiculous for anyone to claim or label or brand NYSC & ALoft as not in Harlem but in South Harlem. These business don't even see themselves in this context, it's only this blogger and their ax to grind to separate and make distinct from the whole (Harlem).
As was said, it will be interesting to see if this blogger always and always refers to The Red Rooster as in "Central Harlem".
Anon 8:37,
ReplyDeleteI wonder if it would feel better to you if we would use the term "Upper Manhattan" or "Northern Manhattan" wait...better just Manhattan? or Central New York City? Southern New York State ,no, Eastern USA? You get the point...
I understand how geographic names and naming of locations can be political. But, grouping neighborhoods into names can be helpful and empowering as well. (They also make the City a bit smaller, which I like.) Most folks in the "Mount Morris Park" area feel pretty proud and happy with their neighborhood being called that way.
SoHa is a stupid term, made up by the real estate people, I agree. I am sure we could find something a bit nicer by looking at what the area used to be called in the past.
I don't for moment think that Ulysses makes distinctions based on race or social class but rather simply as geographical markers. If he writes about certain areas more than others—well, some areas have more activity than others.
ReplyDeleteSome posters, on the other hand, are quite blatant in their use of South Harlem or SoHa or the like as not so subtle code words.
10:14 - I think that's an excellent point. We've not heard from any of the carriage house owners about how they are dealing with the wrap-around Aloft.
ReplyDeleteif the worst thing commenters on this board did was subtly use code words we'd be in great shape. unfortunately the quite blatant insane ranting of other posters overpowers any sympathy i'd have towards what is probably a reasonable argument. everything is not a freaking conspiracy theory! give it a g-d-damn rest so the rest of us can enjoy our morning harlem reading.
ReplyDeleteSo what is racist about the word south? Harlem is a large area, I find geographic markers quite helpful when learning about new businesses. I also find the name SoHa to be stupid.We can't get something more original.
ReplyDeleteYo Corey let me spell it out for you. SouthHarlem aka SoHa = white arrivistes.
ReplyDeleteSanou's Mum,
ReplyDeleteand affluent African Americans and South Americans and Asians and other $$$. I think it is about all the rich folks coming in our hood not only just the Whites that troubles a lot of people.
and all those bugaboooo strollers that come along with them....arrrrghhhh! ;)
ReplyDeleteSame old story. South Harlem, Central Harlem, what is the problem? I agree with Corey, the local identifiers help to pinpoint where stuff is happening. Yes, SOHA is a little bit daft, but if it helps to sell a few more condos, so be it (I don't really think it does, but there are probably more qualified people who could tell me otherwise). East Harlem used to be Italian Harlem (most of whom were kicked out in the '60s) and I'm pretty sure there must have been a Harlem Village at some point. Plenty of parks and streets have been renamed at some point.
ReplyDeleteThis blog has done an excellent job of documenting Harlem. Harlem is a huge area by Manhattan standards and to use the term South Harlem is perfectly reasonable and helpful to anyone reading this story, this is also in keeping with how Ulysses is always very clear in his geographic references which is helpful to readers. The unreasonable reaction that the words “South Harlem” invoke is more a reflection of how over sensitive some people can be and an unfortunate part of Harlem culture in seeing conspiracy theories in every little thing.
ReplyDeleteIn an earlier post I stated that I believed Ulysses uses geographical labels as geographical labels. But I don't think I am seeing conspiracy theories in every little thing vis a vis some posters' lexicon choices.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with westsider. Thanks for stating things so clearly.
ReplyDeleteWow -- I certainly don't think Ulysses is the one with an ax to grind here.
ReplyDelete"Harlem" is a huge area in geographic terms. Few here would argue that East Harlem, Morningside Heights, Hamilton Heights, etc. are not meaningful and useful descriptors.
Likewise, one of the things I appreciate most about this blog -- in addition to the level of detail and quality of the content itself -- is the extent to which Ulysses covers a broad range of topics and locations in and around Greater Harlem. He has also taken great care to specify the location for each post, and to tag those posts according to both topical category and geography. For the volume of information here, that is very important.
On some level, the issue is how best to organize information. Given the size even of the "Central Harlem" slice, I think 125th Street is a reasonable and useful dividing line for organizing posts about the area.
Likewise, I don't have strong feelings about naming. Posts could just as easily be tagged "Central - Above 125" and "Central - Below 125" -- though I'm guessing people would still find a way to get riled up about that schema, too.
I'm not sure how else to state this, but I think it needs to be said for some of the above commenters. If you are taking issue with human beings moving into "your" neighborhood on account of their ethnicity or skin color, your attitude is racist. End of story.
If you want to make a class-based or social justice argument without resorting to race-baiting or stereotyping, I can respect that. But that other form of discourse just doesn't belong here, on this blog.
Finally, I think we should all try to take a step back and relax. Without question there are a lot more serious problems in this world, and greater fish to fry -- even in our own backyard.
Sanou's Mum,
ReplyDeleteApologies, I do not see you as a conspiracy theorist and I always value your contribution. However our first poster @ 8:37AM is a fine example of a conspiracy theorist that after living in Harlem for a number of years I have found is sadly not uncommon. That may be explained that after years of wrongs done to the peoples of Harlem it is no wonder that some are miss trustful of others motives, although that is no excuse. Maybe it is now time to move on from those positions of conspiracy theories. Peace.
People, check the tags on the right side of the page. The tags suggest that it's West Harlem that receives the most coverage, followed by Central, then South, and East bringing up the rear. There are some blogs out there (Harlem Condo Life) that are poorly-veiled cheerleaders of a certain part of Harlem. This blog is not one of them. Ulysses does a great job of covering a wide range of Harlem topics and neighborhoods.
ReplyDeleteNow, with all of that being said...while everyone else is plugging their own hoods, can we get a little more coverage of East Harlem please? LOL!
" If you are taking issue with human beings moving into "your" neighborhood on account of their ethnicity or skin color, your attitude is racist. End of story."
ReplyDeleteFDB was an vacant crime ridden blight for a very long time.
Because of the overall size of greater Harlem and the population increases, distinct neighborhoods in Harlem Bordered by parks and major streets are being distinguished by section names. For the section south of 125th street west of lenox, it seems reasonable to describe the area as south harlem.
"If you are taking issue with human beings moving into "your" neighborhood on account of their ethnicity or skin color, your attitude is racist. End of story."
Over the past ten+ years the blighted areas of south Harlem have been rezoned and rebuilt with by manhattan standards, relatively mixed income housing.
"If you are taking issue with human beings moving into "your" neighborhood on account of their ethnicity or skin color, your attitude is racist. End of story."
Lovely people from all walks of life and incomes are coming to Harlem to take part in its rebirth from blight. They bring with them jobs, good will, and a variety of ethnic backgrounds.
"If you are taking issue with human beings moving into "your" neighborhood on account of their ethnicity or skin color, your attitude is racist. End of story."
Harlem Bespoke provides a very unbiased and positive approach to informing all people who live in Harlem a useful resource. It would be a shame to use this blog as a springboard for racial hate or to speak ill of the positive effects to the crime rate, the schools, the jobs, that are beginning to happen in Harlem.
"If you are taking issue with human beings moving into "your" neighborhood on account of their ethnicity or skin color, your attitude is racist. End of story."
Well said, Pete and Westsider. Ulysesses does a good job covering ALL of Harlem, and it's perfectly okay to specify where in Harlem things are, given that different parts of Harlem have different characters. They are still all Harlem, of course.
ReplyDeleteI don't really like the term "SoHa" either ... but I don't think Ulysses uses it. That said, people used to scoff at names like Tribeca as well.
If you don't like this blog, stop reading it. I think it is just fine as is and an excellent resource.
ReplyDeleteCentral Harlem all day! Red Rooster coming soon!
ReplyDeletePeople, people, it's the same guy all the time! I've labeled him as Mr. Sour (see HB link below) and once again, he's first to post and derail any potential for constructive conversation. He also notoriously posts under different anons/names just so he can agree with himself!
ReplyDeleteMr. Sour = Anon 8:27
Mr. Sour = HarlemPride 10:27
His sole objective is to cast Ulysses as a supremacist of sorts every time he speaks of South Harlem. EVERY TIME. Here's another example...
http://harlembespoke.blogspot.com/2010/05/dwell-17-east-128th-street-townhouse.html
I welcome the development, and my new neighbors. This Harlem that I love had degenerated. We the community had lost. Our leaders complained, but didn't achieve. Nothing got cleaned up. Nothing got built. Its great to see all the new folks with their kids living in buildings built on empty lots that were previously only for the rats and the drugs. I don't care what color they are. And some folks from the community should stop complaining, and start doing stuff themselves.
ReplyDeleteWe need to also pay attention to the politicians...those who actually do their job vs those who are just in it for personal gain.
ReplyDeleteWELL SAID anon@ 1:57pm. I get the distinct impression that certain people out there were more than happy to do just enough to get by in what has been a nice little set up. Why is it that the Marshall's in Harlem always looks like a rubbish tip by the end of the day? Because certain people do not give a s**t about the environment they live in. Why bother when there will be somebody else to pick up after you? The same people are now suddenly worried because that ship has sailed. I don't care what race, nationality or whatever it is you are, let's start looking after our neighborhood(s) and making this a better place for all. That is just common decency.
ReplyDelete@HarlemPride said:
ReplyDelete"Google the term "South Harlem" and you'll see it's primarily only this blogger and this blog that perpetuate the separateness and distinction of the identity "South Harlem".
When I search for "South Harlem" two NY magazine article and NY Times article come up using "South Harlem". NY mag even drew a map.
Zlister,
ReplyDeleteYou're absolutely wrong and it's quite interesting that you believe what you're saying. I made the comment you referenced above about the "uneventful part of town." However, I didn't make the comment everyone is currently arguing about. So I guess there are now two of us "Mr. Sours."
So f*in what. South Harlem, west Harlem. Who cares? Love your neighbor, do not throw garbage on the street, and spend your time on something that is positive for harlem rather than quibbling over what to call this section or that section of Harlem. This is not a conspiracy for any ethnic group to take over Harlem or market it a certain way based on stereo type. People have been making up strange contractions for neighborhoods in New York for years. Embrace the fact that everyone in Harlem can benefit from a safer neighborhoods with healthier food and better schools.
ReplyDeleteHarlemPRIDE my ass. Less time trying to make a case for some conspiracy about class and Harlem and more emphasis on the cleaner and safer streets, and the intent of this blog to bring the community together.
ReplyDelete3:53 -- Hear, hear.
ReplyDeleteNow, in an attempt to steer this thing back *on* topic, I called the Upper Manhattan Workforce Center that ran the job placement ad above. They said they are still operating on the assumption of an August 5 opening for Aloft -- for what it's worth.
From the Aloft web site:
ReplyDeleteALOFT HARLEM - OPENING AUGUST 5, 2010
2300 Frederick Douglass Boulevard New York, New York 10027 United States
Phone: To be Announced
Pre-Opening Information
The aloft Harlem is currently accepting inquiries at the pre-opening office, which is located at the address listed above. This is also the hotel's physical address. Individual hotel reservations are not being accepted at this time.
--
Contact Us
Aloft Harlem - Opening August 5, 2010
For information on careers at Aloft Harlem - Opening August 5, 2010, please use the contact details below.
Physical Address
2300 Frederick Douglass Boulevard
New York, New York 10027
United States
Phone: To be Announced
Fax: To be Announced
E-MAIL US (aloftharlem@aloftharlem.com)
Career Enquiries
E-MAIL US (aloftharlem@aloftharlem.com)
The Aloft Harlem is currently accepting inquiries and resumés through email.
so interesting that this post gets 30 plus comments and the one about a random person running around stabbing people in broad daylight gets 5. perceived slights and the word "south" as it applies to Harlem is apparently way more important to us than a real and physical threat in our community. good to know!
ReplyDeleteI sent an email to the above contact address and received the following response:
ReplyDeleteGreetings from Aloft Harlem! I appreciate your interest in the hotel. While the opening has shifted a bit, it is still scheduled for an August opening. Are you interested in confirming reservations? If so, for what dates?
6:01 pm, it's because maybe, just maybe the first poster struck a nerve. A spot on accurate nerve. Hence the uproar to counter and squelch the substance of the person's points. No one has yet to answer the first 3 questions I have noticed as well.
ReplyDeleteIt struck a nerve because people are frustrated with such a bullshit post. I'll answer the three questions:
ReplyDelete1) the aloft hotel is south of 125 th street on fdb. At this point with all the attention and activity Harlem is experiencing it is perfectly acceptable to refer to this location as either south Harlem or west Harlem. On a website that highlights activity in all of Harlem it is reasonable to assume that the webmaster will refer to the various neighborhoods of Harlem in some distinction, which is helpful to the reader in u derstansing the general location. For instance when the webmaster refers to east Harlem I understand it is east of Lenox, and likely nit in Marcus Garvey park area.
2) just using the description Harlem in everyboost would be non descriptive for a blog solely devoted to Harlem. The webmaster must make some distinction between the huge enclave that is Harlem and identify the neighborhoods that make up Harlem in order to descriptive to the audience. This has nothing to do with prefering a neighborhood or trying to highlight what is probably the most dynamic section if Harlem with at this point is commonly refered to as either south Harlem or west Harlem.
3) as far as consistently refering to red rooster being in central harlem, seems like a reasonable title for that area of Harlem, centered between the east and west and north and south.
Ok, there you go. Answers to the stupid uestions. Now can we please get past this south Harlem bullshit and enjoy te oopurtunity the entire area of Harlem is experincing and act like neighbors and a community.
The first poster illustrates nicely for us the attitudes that allowed Harlem to decline. A petty focus on language rather than action. A twisted mind that sees racism rather than reason.
ReplyDeleteHarlem is enormous, compared to any other 'named' neighborhood. We need subdivisions to describe it. South of 125th is South. Around 125th between Morningside and 5th is Central. East of 5th is East. Its sad that anyone thinks this is racist.
{not that it matters, but I'm black, European, and have lived in Harlem for 5 years)
The NY Times had an article yesterday about private schools using Randall's Island which highlights what has held Harlem back in the past because of an isolationist, exceptionalist and persecuted mind set. Harlem is part of Manhattan and needs to reflect it. The world has changed, New York has changed; Harlem must keep changing. There is no alternative.
ReplyDeleteHi all
ReplyDeleteThis is be opened as it was scheduled.the construction is trying his best effort to finish it finish it timely.they have signed in an endorsement to complete the work in time.