New York Magazine's list of this year's top 50 nabes in the city has Harlem dead last. Apparently there's a chart that maps out various livability factors of each neighborhood which includes cost of living, transit, schools, diversity, etc. For example, the number 37th neighborhood was Washington Heights of which was described as, "For better or worse, it has mostly escaped the forces of gentrification; it’s much safer than reputed, with a falling crime rate." Park Slope in Brooklyn received the top spot partially because of the charming building stock. The Bronx even had a couple of neighborhoods that faired better than Harlem. So what was the overall take on the most historic uptown nabe? The review basically said, "A surprisingly lackluster performer. Despite radical changes in recent years, crime is still relatively high and the public schools could still use improvement." Seriously? As far as preserved brownstone neighborhoods, quick public transportation to midtown, access to (some of the best) public parks, new shops and condo developments, Harlem is light years ahead of the Bronx or Washington Heights. Schools are still an issue for many but most of those other neighborhoods have problematic public education districts as well. Crime has gone down drastically in the past years so to even mention that Washington Heights has improved and Harlem as being the worse is really inappropriate. Didn't the papers recently report that crime was ticking up in Brooklyn?
Last of all, Harlem has many different neighborhoods and covers a large area of Manhattan. The Mount Morris Park Historic District, Hamilton Heights, Sugar Hill, South Harlem, Central Harlem, West Harlem and East Harlem are all very specific subdivisions of greater Harlem. If you are going to break down every section of downtown Manhattan into minute neighborhoods, then we suggest you do the same uptown. The West Village is different than the East Village and the same can be said for East and West Harlem. Thoughts anyone? Read more about it on the NY Magazine site: LINK. Photo of Hamilton Heights by Ulysses.
WOW, that article is a terrible misrepresentation of Harlem! As a Sugar Hill resident, I am offended and beg to differ!
ReplyDeleteI guess they completely ignore Hamilton Heights and Sugar Hill - and group them into Morningside Heights. How ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteWhen did Morningside Heights extend to 155th Street? Obviously don't know what they are talking about.
ReplyDeleteI am baffled, yet not surprised. There is a real snobbery in the media here in NY when it comes to neighborhoods and I find certain outlets (Curbed for one) revel in every opportunity they get to put a negative slant on Harlem. It is frustrating and more than a little saddening. I am most familiar with Central Harlem and it is a beautiful neighborhood with stunning architecture and for me it is the best walking neighborhood in the city. I used to live on the UES and I wouldn't want to go back.
ReplyDeleteAll these number-driven "best" lists share the biases of their creators. I personally would rather live in Harlem than Park Slope, or anywhere in Brooklyn.
ReplyDeleteFeh. It’ll keep the riff raff out.
ReplyDeleteOops. What’s that sound? The value of my house falling!?
The thing about it is that they are trying to make some scientific matrix out of finding the best place to live. The only problem is the information they are inputting does not add up!
ReplyDeleteyay! more harlem for me! i'm happy if the hipsters don't know how great our neighborhood is
ReplyDeleteThe article is disappointing for me -- not so much because I would expect anything better from NY Magazine, but because it was done by Nate Silver, whose political and statistical voting analysis skills I think are spot on.
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to do a statistical analysis with any kind of rigor and objectivity, there is no reason not to be more granular. Apparently they did start with block-level or census tract-level data, but abstracted it away into "common sense" boundaries. I think a lot of meaningful and valuable information was lost in the process -- talking about a monolithic "Harlem", as Ulysses points out, is more than a little stretch. It would have been truly interesting to put their weighted index into a computer model that draws its own dynamic boundaries, or better yet renders a "livability heat map" based on the underlying data.
I also wonder about that underlying data, which gets short shrift in the article relative to the discussion of weighting. There's no specific disclosure of their data sources, which makes it reasonable to question accuracy and freshness. We're also left to wonder how much subjective interpretation might have been used to fill in the gaps.
It's probably also worth mentioning that they actually tabulated 60 "neighborhoods" but only put 50 in the article, rendering "Harlem" as "last." [Note: That's a lot of scare quotes, but they are all richly deserved.]
Perhaps the local politicians should look into this article as well as the research methodology and confront it head on?
ReplyDeleteI am not sure how this was done either and question the accuracy of the underlying data. If you use the custom index, and say the ONLY things you care about are green space, housing quality, proximity, and affordability, Harlem is still ranked #26 - behind everything from Bay Ride to LES to Dumbo to Inwood to Murray Hill. I'm not going to argue with the methodology in terms of how they weight factors, because this is really subjective, but it'a hard to argue that Harlem doesn't have green space, proximity/transit, affordability, and housing stock going for it.
ReplyDeleteI haven't been in Harlem (or New York) long. I moved here a year ago from California, and it is clear to me that many people, no matter what Harlem is or is not, want to believe THEY know what it is or is not, and want to see it fail. New York in general can be amazingly racist and the antiquated class system that still exists in this city is so sharp it cuts right through. Having said that, I do love New York & I do love Harlem. So, to all the Harlem naysayers, their loss.
ReplyDeleteHarlem's subway lines = 1,2,3,4,5,6,A,B,C,D, Metro North Park Avenue 125th, future Riverside Ave 125th, and 2nd Avenue subway line.
ReplyDeleteParks= Central Park, Morningside Park, Mt Morris Park, St Nick Park
Affordability = 1 family 3500 sqft brownstone $1-1.5 million. Compare that to anything 1 block south of Harlem or brownstone Bklyn.
Housing stock= unparalleled
The only thing holding Harlem back from being # 1 is its schools.
The guy that made this survey up is a joke.
Also Jackie Robinson Park! 145th Street is rapidly developing and that park is a big part of it.
ReplyDeleteThe lack of serious data analysis is defeating. A little bit of lethargic reporting there on Nate Silver's part. Have dreams of summertime Hampton weekend getaways distracted him this early?
ReplyDeleteAs the one who made the custom index point about Harlem's housing stock, affordability, green space, and proximity, I will say the survey also included retail, bars/nightlife, etc. I grant Harlem is behind most of Manhattan here and even brownstone Brooklyn. However, South Harlem is catching up QUICKLY. The school situation in South Harlem is not that bad - Hugo Newman is easily as good as Brooklyn Heights, and you have access to non zoned District 3 schools, not to mention that with the money saved, there are plenty of private schools on UES and UWS. However, you can't buy a brownstone in this neighborhood for $1.5 million that's renovated. Really closer to $2 million. But still, 1/2 the price of anything on UWS and 1/3 to 1/4 of one in a good school district on UES and UWS. Still, overall, I think with the pricing adjustments post-Lehman, Harlem has a pretty good value proposition, especially in South Harlem with all of the new retail
ReplyDeleteAttention all Harlemites - Harlem is great and has tremendous potential! However, if you don't actually support the shops and restaurants in the area along Lenox and 8th avenue, we can't get upset when things shut down and the area is treated with complete disregard! If you live there and are not supporting, who the hell will? All too often, my Brooklyn friends brag about supporting the area where they live. Make it a trend to shop and dine where you live and maybe it will catch on. Don't just talk about it, be about it. Ask yourselves, What three local shops do you all support in South Harlem or Mount Morris Park for example?
ReplyDeleteI think the first sentence says it all, “When I moved to New York from Chicago last April”. His low opinion of Harlem is perfectly understandable as most “new” New Yorkers bring with them a stigma about Harlem that takes time to get over, Joseph being an exception to the rule.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 6:29PM, well said and point taken.
ReplyDeleteWe didn't get absolutely last place. We got 50th place out of 60. They just didn't bother to include 51-60 in the main article. Go to this page and see the full list:
ReplyDeletehttp://nymag.com/realestate/neighborhoods/2010/65355/
50. Central Harlem
51. Bushwick
52. City Island/Country Club/Pelham Bay
53. Westerleigh
54. East Harlem
55. Ditmas Park/Kensington
56. Bed Stuy
57. Melrose/Mott Haven/Port Morris
58. Crown Heights
59. Todt Hill
60. Belle Harbor
It's hard to judge the list without more detail on where they got their data, but just playing around with the sliders, things don't add up. Apparently they think East Harlem is less affordable than Central Harlem, which isn't true.
I live on 112/FDB and although I thought that I lived in Harlem, the survey is suggesting that I actually live in Morningside Heights! So, I agree with others that this survey is very problematic.
ReplyDeleteThe only two factors that make sense in rating Harlem so low are 1)the public schools 2) dining/retail.
The dining and retail scene is changing for the better on a monthly basis but still has a way to go; I think that will happen over the next 5 years.
In terms of the public schools, there are many charter schools that are trying to turn things around. Some of the public schools are seeing improvement but I think that many affluent white people moving to Harlem do not want to put their children in public schools because the overall performance of these schools is abysmal. I am dismayed that the schools are not more integrated here and I do think that lack of integration holds many middle class people - black, white, hispanic, asian, etc, from flocking here. How do we change that? I don't mean to open a can of worms but it is a problem.
I take issue with with travel/promixity argument. Harlem is the ONLY neighborhood where the subway lines will take you almost anywhere in the city, without you having to make a gazillion transfers to do so.
ReplyDelete1,2,3 lines will get you to South Ferry and Brooklyn. A,B,C,D will take you to Queens, JFK and Brooklyn. You are close enough to get to the 4,5,6 lines at 125th or The Grand Concourse. Metro-North on 125th st, gets you to Westchester. If you own a car, LI is minutes away via the Triborough. NJ is minutes away via the GWB. The Henry Hudson takes you into Westchester. Best neighborhood in the city.
one thing about this survey that is really dumb is that the top two spots are almost opposites; park slope is essentially an urban suburb and the lower east side is essentially a playland for college students. I lived on the LES for many years and can't think of a reason that anyone over the age of 25 would especially choose to be down there unless they have a rent stabilized apt - as many do.
ReplyDeleteditmas park is a very beautiful neighborhood of large victorian homes right by prospect park and it ranked 55. It is such a desirable place that it is almost impossible to buy a home there. i am sure the people living there are as much like wtf about their ranking as we here in harlem are.
Hey westsider, I'm sure a lot of newcomers bring with them a lot of ignorance about New York, including their opinion/ideas about Harlem (including maybe Silver), but what really pains (and puzzles) me is the attitude I encounter on a regular basis from not new people to the city, but old-school, usually white, New Yorkers or transplants that have been here 10+ years and still have such a nasty, uninformed, blatantly racist attitude regarding Harlem. And, these are typically otherwise intelligent, educated, liberal-minded people. It's weird! And it's upsetting! As I said above, I have only invested a year in this neighborhood, but I can't imagine how it must feel to encounter that attitude on a regular basis for those who have invested their entire lives here. Or, maybe I encounter this more often because I am white and other white New Yorkers feel no need to hold back about their opinions when I tell them I live in Harlem by choice. I don't get it, and sometimes it makes me not want to go south of 110th. On the flip side, maybe it's good all the ignorant folks are staying away.
ReplyDeleteTo reiterate the point about neighborhood boundaries, Harlem is defined as east of St. Nick. This puts almost all of the new businesses along FDB in the Morningside Heights category.
ReplyDeleteWhat Joseph said. I got tired of it living on the UES. The attitude was so different to what I encountered living in London. It was almost like living in a bubble. Complete ignorance and disregard for anything north of 96th st. Saying that, Anon at 6:29PM was also spot on with his comments. The fact is, locals need to get out and support the local businesses.
ReplyDeleteI also get the impression that eating out is just not a priority for the majority of Harlemites. a) they do not care or b) it is just too expensive for a neighborhood that has an extremely low average income. Would have been interesting to see that statistic on there.
I understand the bias some long-time New Yorkers have against Harlem, given the condition of the neighborhood for a good part of the last 35 years. Couple that with a lack of need to travel about 110th street to view the changes, and it becomes difficult to change the perception. In the mid-90's, I made the newbie mistake of taking the A train uptown when I meant to go to 92nd st. While I waited on the platform for the downtown C, I was heckled and threatened ("Maybe we should pull a Bensonhurst on you!"). It's difficult to remove those images. Luckily, I was open-minded enough to explore ten years later.
ReplyDeleteI’m a Harlem resident and I agree with some of the survey findings. Although, much progress has been made over the years, safety, schools, shopping/services, nightlife, health and environment, creative capital are lacking in Harlem. We choose to live here, but understand Harlem has its shortfalls. It’s a fact that many Harlem residents go outside of Harlem to the seek the services and amenities outlined in the survey.(cause we have great transit options) Is it unreasonable to conclude that we, Harlem residents, value housing cost and transit high on our list of priorities? I’m just saying, lets be honest.
ReplyDeleteHarlem residents should write to NY Magazine and express their disdain with respect to the survey. It seems that there are now a growing number of voices in Harlem....let your voices be heard!
ReplyDeleteI, for one, want to thank Ulysses for this blog and his notes on new places to dine and shop in the nabe (wine-tastings at Morris Jumel--who knew?). Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteAs many have pointed out, supporting local businesses will help even bring more business in. Many longtime Harlem residents are so used to going downtown to get their needs and have not gotten into the rhythm of just staying in their neighborhood. New residents who don't know any better still head downtown also. Since the recession hit, our household has made it a point to stay above 96th Street for all our needs and it has worked out fine. The only shopping problem is that there's not really anywhere to go to get decent shoes at a good price. Maybe that's a good thing since we are all learning to save in various areas of our budgets. Transit is a big priority to most people since everyone works in midtown and not because we want to go shopping downtown all the time.
ReplyDeleteIt is absolutely clear that there is an anti Harlem slant not only to the article, but also to the NY Magazine "Livability Calculator". Agreed, there are certain amenities lacking within Central Harlem, however, it is plainly obvious that transport and green space is in abundance. Why then on the calculator does Central Harlem still have such a low rank when "Affordability/Housing Cost" and "Transit/Proximity" are picked as the two priorities? Blatant misrepresentation.
ReplyDeleteWe live in a world that to a lot of people "Quality Of Life"
ReplyDeleteequals 90% "White" neighborhoods. !!!Whatever!!!
The article was so wrong. Harlem can no longer be looked at as one neighborhood spanning from 110th street to 145th street as NY Mag referenced. It has disticnt neighborhoods like other parts of the city. The fact that uptown is catogorized as over 80 blocks needs to stop no other place in Manhattan spans such a large number of blocks.
ReplyDeleteChris, agree with that point. Harlem still ranks low even when you say the only things you care about are transit options, green space, housing stock, and cost.
ReplyDeleteLet's all post our comments on the NY Magazine site as well....the response may catch someone's attention.
ReplyDeleteAnon@9:39. Marshall’s on 125 has nice women’s shoes. There is a Payless for low end on 125 east of Lex.
ReplyDeleteI totally respect Nate Silver as a statistician, but I wonder how current his data is. What I found interesting is this description of Prospect Heights, ranked #9, which sounds a lot like the Harlem I know. Thoughts?
ReplyDelete"Though it is invariably thought of as up-and-coming (perhaps because of all the bars and restaurants popping up in recent years), Prospect Heights is in fact a fairly well-established and diverse middle-class outpost. It offers excellent train access to Manhattan, a bounty of green space thanks to Prospect Park, and reasonable rental prices (an average two-bedroom costs $1,675). But the quality of housing varies significantly from block to block, with well-kept brownstones and new developments juxtaposed with properties in a state of disrepair."
The only difference Melissa is that you are already in Manhattan! Worst nightmare is being stuck in Brooklyn on one of the Holiday nights. The trains come once every hour and no cabs around in sight.
ReplyDeleteOdd that they took two of the nicest neighborhoods (Hamilton Heights and Sugar Hill) and glommed them onto Morningside Heights, which is probably far too long ranked as well. Any survey that places Gowanus (seriously, GOWANUS?) above Sugar Hill/Hamilton Heights is kooky. For crying out loud, Gowanus is a Superfund site.
ReplyDeleteI've lived in Harlem for 8 years. And although it is changing for the better a tiny bit each day... It still is often ranked among the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country. The recent study by Andrew Schiller - based on incidence of violent crime - has only one NYC neighborhood in the top 25 most dangerous and 125th / St. Nicholas is #18.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nowpublic.com/world/most-dangerous-neighborhood-america-top-25-list-cincinnati-1
Anon @ 1:26 p.m., I agree that Harlem is not the safest neighborhood in NYC. But there is no way that 125th street @ St. Nicholas is anywhere near the most dangerous part of Harlem, let alone NYC as a whole. This is just common sense.
ReplyDeleteANON 1:26, Seriously, East New York, and parts of Brooklyn would rank higher. Where are all those stats coming from and did he really look at other areas in New York City? The article is also from June 2009 which probably gathered data from 2008. Lots has changed since then.
ReplyDeleteI seriously doubt that 125th and St Nick could be one of the most dangerous neighborhoods given its proximity to the police precinct. There are conflicting studies - one that came out in the NY Times last year showed fewer murders in Harlem than most other parts of the city.
ReplyDeleteI personally have never felt threatened at all walking down the streets and avenues in Harlem at night - and i am a petite white woman. Sometimes I thinks stats are compiled according to arrests and it is common knowledge that a lot of young black men are unfairly "picked up" for questioning by the police.
I didn't make up the study - I just shared the link. I was just as surprised by it. But numbers don't lie. It's compiled yearly by Neighborhood Scout - a relatively unbiased organizations that compiles information from local and federal law enforcement to help people determine what neighborhoods are safer to live in. They use raw crime reports as a basis.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, in my 8 years on 123rd street, I've had a friend's car broken into, I've been mugged on my stoop, I've been forced to stay down in the subway station by cops with a bunch of other people because there was a huge fight going on upstairs on the street, I've seen someone shot in broad daylight on 125th and drug dealers do about 10 transactions a day (that I see) behind my building.
It is getting better. But crime was a major factor in Dwell's article. We have more work to do up here.
Check out the NY Times intereactive map on homocides for last year:
ReplyDeletehttp://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map
Brooklyn: 173
Bronx: 97
Queens: 71
Manhattan: 55
Staten Island: 15
Most of the homocides are on the east side were there are more projects. These numbers are a fraction of what they were ten years ago.
Anon @ 2:01 - good point about how stats are compiled. I don't think anon @ 2:03 was lying - it is just conflicting data with everything I have seen.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 2:03 - but agreed we still have work to do. It's okay to love the neighborhood but still admit there are problems- in fact, this is the best way to fix them. Just curious - where on 123rd street are you approximately. I am on 122nd street (have lived here for 2 years) near Lenox and haven't had a problem. Granted, I don't walk or take the subway much past 11 pm.
I scrolled over the homicide map in the NY Times. Almost all the crimes were black male on black male (with some hispanic males in the mix) and involved drugs. No surprise. I am going to draw a hasty conclusion from this and the study citing St Nicholas and 123rd: If you are not a black male or not looking to buy drugs you probably have no reason to fear for your safety in Harlem. It seems from the comments here that most people don't feel it is a dangerous place. I live here and don't feel it's dangerous but, that said, I don't like to see groups of teenage and young adult black males hanging out on the street corners because it appears menacing even if it isn't.
ReplyDeleteHanging out on the street is just part of Harlem’s culture, there is nothing necessarily wrong with that as long as there is nothing illegal going on. It makes for Harlem’s engaging street life which is a great part of living in Harlem. Also, good discussion on this post.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the New York Times homicide map and break down south and west harlem in the 2009 section, that is 110th Street to 125th Street, from 5th Avenue to the Hudson, there were ZERO homocides reported. If you include Hamilton Heights all the way up to 155th Street and bordered by Edgecombe, then there were two homocide reported. The Upper West Side had four homocides in comparison.
ReplyDeleteI am the one who shared the Neighborhood Scout link...
ReplyDeleteAnd - sorry to say - ALL studies are incomplete. Including the NYTimes Homicide Map. As I said before - I saw a shooting on 125th last year - the guy was obviously dead. So the fact that the "map" showed ZERO homicides in the area in 2009 is DEAD wrong. There are plenty of angles to these things. Some "studies" are based on neighborhood stats, some on police precinct stats, some on FBI stats... How, when and where a person is "killed" changes with each study.
One theory why our area made the #18th position on the most dangerous neighborhood study is because the 123rd / FDB police precinct is right there. That's probably where most crimes in the area are reported which may mean that's where they are "located" by the crime reporting agencies.
And - sorry - but I understand the "if you're not a young black male involved in drug transactions, you're not at risk" theory. But what if you're walking down the sidewalk behind a drug dealer when a transaction goes badly? You'll obviously be in danger.
Bottom line - play a part in the neighborhood by reporting ALL negative behavior you see.
This is a really good, mature, informational and FOCUSED discussion. Kudos to Harlem Bespoke for it's success in sustaining a positive environment promoting productive discussions. So many other blogs have been derailed by malignant hateful ignoramus commenters. Particularly when 'Harlem' is the topic.
ReplyDeletePlease let's collectively make a conscious effort to keep them out by ignoring them completely if they so choose to post their mindless poison.
GreenGirl, we are on 122nd also. Closer to ACP. Wish they would hurry up and sell the green building opposite!
ReplyDeleteChris - What do you mean the green building? Why does this matter?
ReplyDeleteAh, it is a townhouse that has been on the market for quite a while now. It was a showcase green project. The developers definitely took a leap of faith with it, a full blown conversion on a lovely block, and a decent sale would help encourage further development in the immediate neighborhood (not just along FDB).
ReplyDeleteHere it is:
http://www.warburgrealty.com/property/305072
I read the article in NYMag about the best " 50 places to live in the City" and let me tell you this is all very relevant. Some of the top rated places have very little parks around and why are they still on the top? The same goes for restaurants. I totally disagree with this article and I think that all of those numbers and assumptions are not correct. As far as Harlem being unsafe - I think this is absolutely ridiculous. Just go to NYPD website and check the crime rate. You will be surprised how low it is comparing to midtown areas for example. Don't believe what the Media says, go and research the information first before making an assumption.
ReplyDelete