The two side-by-side SRO buildings at 118 and 120 West 127th Street that were first placed on the market back in April are now in contract. Originally going for $525K, the price was reduced later in the month to $499K for each one. There are no Certificate of Occupancy for the brownstones and renters (?) were still in place. That said, only cash offers were being entertained. So the location is still up and coming but someone with a lot of money and vision apparently purchased these two 17 foot wide townhouses just a half block west of Lenox. The express 2,3 trains are 2 blocks away on 125th Street. What's the chances of these buildings being restored versus a tear-down? Facade photo by Ulysses
Thursday, July 8, 2010
☞ DWELL: 118-120 West 127th in Contract
The two side-by-side SRO buildings at 118 and 120 West 127th Street that were first placed on the market back in April are now in contract. Originally going for $525K, the price was reduced later in the month to $499K for each one. There are no Certificate of Occupancy for the brownstones and renters (?) were still in place. That said, only cash offers were being entertained. So the location is still up and coming but someone with a lot of money and vision apparently purchased these two 17 foot wide townhouses just a half block west of Lenox. The express 2,3 trains are 2 blocks away on 125th Street. What's the chances of these buildings being restored versus a tear-down? Facade photo by Ulysses
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Yeah, the location is still up and coming...unlike everything below 125th street which is spectacular...give me a break! Although I will say that this particular block has a lot of room for improvement. The harsh words seem to be retribution for Marcus Samuelsson's decision to open The Red Rooster on Lenox Ave and for Emmitt Smith deciding to try and build a Hyatt hotel on Lenox as well.
ReplyDeleteJust happy to see these places being bought up. Fewer SROs the better. Only thing I ever see/hear are people hanging on the stoops til all hours getting wasted and playing loud music. Easy if you don't have to work the next day.
ReplyDeleteCall the NYPD if people are getting wasted and playing loud music...simple! The other option is to befriend them, then when they get out of hand try asking them nicely to quiet down.
ReplyDelete#1 seems to have a big chip on his or her shoulder. These blocks do have a ways to go, especially in comparison to blocks below 125th. I don't think Ulysses has some pent up anger about the location of Red Rooster that he is venting when describing specific areas. Calm down.
ReplyDeleteIs it me or does it seem like there has been a lot of sales activity lately? Maybe it's because this blog is covering it now and before maybe i didn't hear about it as much? seems like a good sign for the Harlem real estate market though.
ReplyDeleteMany blocks in central and west Harlem have a ways to go, but I wonder whether people know all of the reasons. Abandoned and/or unattended buildings in this area have frequently been given to social service organizations, usually private, who use the housing for "rehabilitative" purposes: Just-released prison inmates, including sex offenders (there is a major concentration of sex offenders in central and west Harlem) and other violent offenders, drug and alcohol addicted people, including meth and crack, and so on. This is not at all to be confused with affordable, section 8, or project housing - it is not the same thing. Unless the organization adds an awning bearing its name, one would never know, and they usually do not identify themselves. The building department records can also be misleading, unless you know the names of the organization CEOs.
ReplyDeletePeople would be astonished to learn just how many of these sorts of buildings exist here. Were I to purchase any building in or around central Harlem, I would research this carefully. The rehabilitative housing is not going anywhere once the buildings have been given or sold for their nominal-ish prices. I know of many such properties, and the residents are often destructive, littering, threatening passers-by from their stoops, ranting, and so on. It is not always just music playing and hanging out ! The anti-social behavior is in part due to the fact, I think, that many were never neighborhood residents - they were simply placed there. There is also common sense, which would indicate that placing a large number of poorly socialized individuals in close proximity to one another might produce precisely the result that it too often has.
This is something that has not yet fully been opened to honest discussion with community groups, or at least not with those in which I am a participant. It is important to allocate the rehabilitative residences equally across ALL neighborhoods in the city, but right now, these are concentrated in Harlem. In my opinion, this will be a central factor in the fate of this area.
Anon @ 2:03pm...not even sure how to respond to your rambling. I think people are perfectly aware of the pluses and minuses of Harlem (yes, that includes East Harlem). Your post almost comes across as scare tactics. Trying to land a place on the cheap? Or you just don't want people to move up there? There are sex offenders across Manhattan. The UES and UWS have their fare share also.
ReplyDelete1:24 - "These blocks do have a ways to go, especially in comparison to blocks below 125th." First, as far as I can tell we're only talking about one block. Secondly, much like blocks above 125th, it's clear that the majority of blocks below 125th st and above 110th also have a ways to go....so the 125th divide doesn't make much sense....the reality is all of Harlem has a ways to go...but we're getting there.
ReplyDelete2:03 is probably another Brooklynite trying to scare potential Harlem condo/townhouse buyers away. Brooklyn is in bad shape!
ReplyDelete"So the location is still up and coming". As opposed to SOHA which is somewhere between Nirvana and Shangri-La. Maybe there's hope for the poor souls that live on the wrong side of the tracks (above 125th St.). Anyone have an update on our efforts to annex Hamilton Heights and make is officially part of SOHA?
ReplyDeleteThe issue of the preponderance of social service buildings in Harlem was raised to me by a generations-long Harlem resident, a grandmother, who had done the research and knew the facts. I should not take credit for this. She identified this as a sort of racism, dumping people in Harlem. And you do not need to take my (or her) word for it. Do the research yourselves.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify: I am a native New Yorker, a native of Manhattan (not Brooklyn). My husband, also a native New Yorker, grew up in Harlem. We own and so do our families. Looking for a "cheap" place is not something on the horizon.
Myself, considering the perspective of the responses, I am guessing there are many real estate types here ...? Worried about investments ? Or new New Yorkers. There is nothing necessarily wrong with either but these are particular perspectives.
I am scarcely encouraging people not to move here. Indeed, the reverse is the case. But I would like to raise awareness about the actual problems in order that they are addressed. Real, long-time Harlem residents are concerned about these things. I know because I am involved in their tenant and other groups, helping seniors, tutoring, etc. It is important to actually engage the community in which you live rather than map your own ideas onto it. Or maybe even ... contribute something !! You know, instead of consuming the experience. Give it a try.
3.42pm, I think the problem with your initial post is that it comes across as a hyperbolic rant about the wrongs of Harlem. Also, to give your post some credence, it would be better if your provided some factual evidence. Who are the CEOs of these corporations etc? I am not necessarily saying you are wrong, because honestly I am not sure myself, however, there are many, numerous positives about living in Harlem that for me outweigh the negatives. I don't think the responses are from realtors, probably other residents fed up with hearing about the doom and gloom. Celebrate the positives!
ReplyDelete4:13 - responding only lends credence to the nonsense...just ignore.
ReplyDeletewhoa -- the colors in that photo are super saturated. harlem never looked so good.
ReplyDelete3:42, you are the problem. When you say, "Real, long-time Harlem residents are concerned about these things. I know because I am involved in their tenant and other groups, helping seniors, tutoring, etc. It is important to actually engage the community in which you live rather than map your own ideas onto it".
ReplyDeleteYou object to others "mapping their ideas onto it (the community)". Has it ever occurred to you that the ideas that have been in place are terrible, ineffective, and plain old bad? Do you allow for that possibility? Maybe the best thing for the community are new and fresh ideas from outside the community. I am not saying that's the case, however it might be, and I am illustrating your limited and narrow mind. Your statement disallows this possibility, you're not open to it.
I've lived in Harlem 34 years. The place has been a wreck for the most part, up until very recently. Please, bring on and map all the new ideas onto Harlem!, preferable from outside the community thank you, they're working!
I think the poster everyone is dumping on was just trying to share information, even if she was short on specifics.
ReplyDeleteBy the mid 1970s the City became the owner of 60 to 70 percent of the buildings in Harlem. That is mind boggling. Many buildings and lots have since then been sold for pennies to developers, become part of NYCHA, turned into HDFC co-ops, and as the poster said, given to social service organizations. I had not learned about that aspect of the building stock in Harlem before and I am always happy to have more information about the area I live in. No one's idealism about Harlem's future need be threatened by this.
To the poster at 6:09: Thank you for being knowledgeable about this. I found the "dumping" discouraging only because I had hoped to raise awareness about an actual issue. The hostility was a surprise, but what can you do. I maintain that facing reality and working to change it are great ways to preserve idealism and optimism about Harlem.
ReplyDeleteWith my comment about "mapping," I meant, do not map fantasies onto things here and fail to see what is actually going on. I could not agree more that many things need change in Harlem; I do think that deep positive change is needed, though, not superficial. And curtailing the influx of ex-cons, pedophiles, and similar into the area would be a start. FYI: This is not happening downtown, where the block-long concentrations of "supportive" housing are also absent.
I do not know that it is okay to post specific names on a blog, and I have been short on specifics because I do not want the author of the blog to get into trouble. You can find the information through research, all of it is actually public record as it is required to be.
To the person who denies the high number of sex offenders in this area ...? Umm... do the research. Do consider the crimes and designation as well. Search, for instance, "10027" and then "10012" in the government database. And then, do something about it ! Or at least ask, Why ? No need to leave or be "scared off."
7.03pm, you're still the very root of the problem. When you say, "I maintain that facing reality and working to change it are great ways to preserve idealism and optimism about Harlem".
ReplyDeleteWhat does that really mean boiled down? I say facing reality means people with HHI (household incomes) of $36K have no business living in Manhattan in 2010 and going forward. That's reality and 75%+ of Harlem. You see you don't really want to face "reality", do you? Reality is why do we enable people entrenched in poverty to stay in Manhattan and make them immune from getting priced out? We (tax payers) pay for their food, we pay for their housing. We immunize a vast section of Harlem from being fiscally responsible, we grant them entitlement. Why?
"Idealism and Optimism" about Harlem? To Whom? It's very clear people like you want to take (1) Tenure + (2) Culture = (3) Currency of entitlement and declare economics, reality be null and void. You want entitlement to be immune from fiscal responsibility, reality, the facts of life. People like you use words like "preserve", etc.
You're the problem. There is no reason Harlem should have any sacred cows, any more than little Italy does. For some reason the Italians have accepted little Italy is no more, it's now and extension of Chinatown.
We don't hear these arguments and all this crap from the Italians on the transition. Everything must change, nothing stays the same, and that includes Harlem. However people like you want to make Harlem and exception, and keep it the same for a select sector of people, and why? (you claim tenure and culture).
Yes, I am idealistic and optimistic about Harlem, and I hope to hell we GET RID OF THE PROJECTS, tear them all down, and tell the people Yonkers is North, the Carolinas are South. That's my optimism. I'm hopeful we end making people immune from getting priced out of Harlem. It's a joke, hard working people are priced out of Harlem every day. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands dwell in projects, some with Central Park views, on the tax payer's dime, and they can't be priced out of Harlem.
Enough with this crap about culture, preservation, blah blah blah. This is a city, it's about change. The culture of entitlement is the root of the problem. Entitlement to live in the most expensive city in the continental U.S., even though I have no job, am not looking for a job, or earn a fraction of the real world cost of living in New York City.
Let's just cut to the chase. The density of the underclass that is entrenched in harlem and has no business living in Manhattan is enormous. It's Harlem's problem, it's why the schools will never be good, it's why gentrification will only be spotty and in sectors.
I would say 80% of the people in Harlem do not cut it, income - wise, to dwell in Harlem. yet they do. how? social welfare programs of one flavor or another. the blockade to real pervasive gentrification of Harlem. People, whenever "they" start using words like "preservation, community, culture", etc....that's those are the alarms of a declaration of entitlement is about to unfold.
Wow. I am unusually speechless. A lot of nastiness on this thread. And all from people who choose to remain anonymous.
ReplyDeleteI, too, think the poster everyone is dumping on just wanted to share information and has no agenda. And 9:16--you way overshare, my brother.
Not sure how the 9:16 commentary has anything to do with anything I said.
ReplyDeleteSo ... Let me state this yet more simply, and I will use some of your exact language in the hopes of getting through. In social service buildings, career entitlement benefits recipients languish, throw garbage, and much much more. There are entire blocks of these buildings. Hence my project here, furthering awareness about the proliferation of these often invisible but destructive places, populated by the "underclass" you identify. I am tired of living around them and dealing with their "tenants" and I was smart enough to look into it, to find out what they were. Then, I shared this information under a topic having to do with the quality of certain blocks.
It is important to gain an awareness of these buildings, actually much worse than the projects. These places are a step below the projects because they are also very poorly managed if at all. They are also privately owned, which means difficult to dismantle. But people can attend community precinct meetings and Community Board meetings and speak up. Encourage (or demand that) the owners to find less anti-social tenants. Discourage the formation of new entitlement program based, rehabilitative housing here - see previous comment about the difficulty of dismantling them.
The "spotty gentrification" was my reason for posting in the first place. You are correct, it is "spotty," precisely because these places are there and expanding every day. Want to get over the "sectoring" ? Start by finding out what is really there.
anon @10:20pm, if the information is available to the public and you have the advantage of having done the research or know of where to find this information, I do not see the problem in sharing it in a public forum. If as you say it is all public record then putting specific street names and corporations on here is not an invasion of privacy. You said yourself that the building department records can be misleading. Perhaps the sharing of knowledge is the first step in identifying and resolving the very problems that you highlighted in your initial post.
ReplyDelete"GETRIDOFTHEPROJECTS" has been in deep hiding for months now! He's BAACCCKKK!
ReplyDeleteTo the anonymous chap at 9:16pm -- I'm not going to address the content of your post, except to point out that you are quite obviously ripping into the wrong anonymous poster.
ReplyDeleteI've read everything in this thread, and I'm frankly quite baffled as to why you have taken this person to somehow be the embodiment of everything you hate about "entitlement" attitudes.
Quite to the contrary, s/he appears to be expressing some concern about the degree to which transitional housing has been concentrated locally. Unlike "tearing down the projects," this is one issue area where local residents and political actors may actually have some near-term leverage, and it happens to be one in which both new and longtime residents should be on the same side.
I would respectfully ask that you refrain from making such aggressive ad hominem attacks on this blog. I am confident that I am not the only reader here who appreciates the relatively civil tone that has mostly prevailed here. And it's just not necessary to blow up like that -- especially when, as near as I can tell, the recipient of the vitriol is actually in agreement with you on most all of the issues in question.
Harlem is still relatively underpopulated and will be helped enormously by the increased density of working class and middle class people. Presently, the non-working poor in Harlem are the majority of the population one sees on the streets - if there were a greater density of the aforementioned middle and working class then the non-working poor would blend in and just be part of the fabric of the neighborhood. (I lived in the East Village for 22 years and saw this happen - yet there are still many, many places in the EV which house the poor,recovering addicts, parolees, etc.) I think it will be much easier for everyone when there is greater population density here. No group likes to feel menaced and no group likes to feel pushed aside. Most people just want a place to live.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Anonymous 12:26 and 5:35, for you calm and rational posts. Although I would surely meet the residency "requirements" of Anonymous 9:16, as a recent Harlem property owner, that poster's comments literally make me feel nauseated. This blog has so far been an upbeat, though realistic representation of modern -day Harlem. Let's hope most of us will resist the vitriol and elitism 9:16 is putting forth.
ReplyDeleteAnon @7:41, there isn't any excuse for the comments from anon @9:16. This is a wonderful platform to voice one's opinion (for or against) and Pete put it pretty succinctly - it just isn't necessary to blow up like that. I am still certainly interested in finding out more from you about the whereabouts of some of these locations.
ReplyDelete